crime

2 American men wanted for aiding Ghosn's escape arrive in Japan

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By Eimi Yamamitsu and Nate Raymond

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Well, I hope they had a chance to spend some of their $1.3 million because they’ll probably be spending the next few years in Japan. I’ll bet the elder Taylor was so pleased with himself when Ghosn escaped. I can just picture him, Ghosn and the other planners after the escape making fun of how lax Japanese immigration was. I doubt Taylor will be laughing now. Anyway, mercenaries take their chances and know a plan can fall apart. Why he decided to return and live in America, where he knew he could be arrested, I’ll never know.

Meanwhile, Ghosn lives in luxury in Beirut, while the Taylors are in Japan, Greg Kelly’s trial continues and those four men in Turkey are in jail. Still, he’s a prisoner himself, albeit in a luxury condo. But he can’t leave Lebanon, the French are investigating him for tax irregularities and he still has that Interpol red notice stapled to his name for the rest of his life.

Having said all that, I still don’t think what Ghosn did merited this farce. If he was doing something dodgy, the Nissan board should have just removed him. A lot of people would have been spared considerable grief.

23 ( +35 / -12 )

"This is a sad day for the family, and for all who believe that veterans deserve better treatment from their own country," their lawyer Paul Kelly said in a statement on Monday.

Ah, yes. The classic red herring "veterans" card is played by their American lawyer. If I ever get stopped by the police, I'll pull that card out. "Hey, if it wasn't for me, y'all be speaking Vietnamese right now..."

15 ( +31 / -16 )

The Taylors are about to witness the wrong side of Japan, not Sazae-san, whiskey roku or braised thin slices of pork and mountain vegetables.

19 ( +27 / -8 )

Under Japanese law, suspects can be held for up to 20 days before being indicted or released, and are not allowed to have their lawyers present during questioning by prosecutors.

Isn't there some UN regulations on this detention without charge or legal representation. Seems against human rights.

9 ( +25 / -16 )

TokyoJoeToday 06:01 pm JST

Isn't there some UN regulations on this detention without charge or legal representation. Seems against human rights.

I bet you'd find something, but as I know the situation here, they will play with words. They will say it's not a detention but like a self isolation or come up with an excuse (corona is good one). You get the idea. They haven't been found guilty of anything yet, yet they are guilty already. And giving the news coverage drama and over dramatising things, they are viewed as guilty in the eyes of many Japanese people.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/08/carlos-ghosn-nissan-boss-japanese-justice

This included interrogations that lasted for up to eight hours a day without a lawyer present. The presumption of guilt, and the pressure placed on him by Japanese prosecutors to confess, convinced him that there was no chance of a fair trial. And so he fled.

and

Japan’s hostage justice, interrogation procedures barring lawyers and arbitrary denial of family contact are out of step with many other democracies and international law. The UN Human Rights committee has called on Japan to reform its criminal justice system to allow for the presence of defence counsel, while a UN committee against torture called Japan’s criminal justice system “medieval”

If you're not allowing your lawyer to be present or don't accept the right to remain silent (if someone remains silent, it's considered an aggravation. In other words, remaining silent means you're making things more difficult for yourself.), then it's no justice. It's just a joke. Lawyers and the right to a fair trial are considered in most civilised countries as the fundamental right. Not here in Japan.

14 ( +24 / -10 )

How many of you said this wasn’t going to happen? Good for Japan, find these two guilty now.

-17 ( +18 / -35 )

So, are some of you condoning their actions?

-5 ( +14 / -19 )

They had better get used to sleeping with the light on 24 hours a day-considered torture in the US!

0 ( +12 / -12 )

And now that the witch hunt is partially finished,they will have their revenge for being ashamed by these two guys.

It is not the point if they are guilty or not at this point before a fair process and preserve the dignity of the persons that are charged.

I firmly believe in democracy and Japan is far to be a real one.

As a western European that admire the US for being a great democracy this is a sad day indeed.

The US should have not let this happen because they are awared of the (in)justice system of Japan.

0 ( +15 / -15 )

So veterans should be immune from any criminal prosecution? No wonder they didn't win their extradition case. Somehow don't think these two will be getting bail (as Carlos may have arranged boxes to smuggle them out...!).

5 ( +16 / -11 )

America, the Land of Democracy and Freedom. Yeah...also free to be extradited to Japan, a country known for its harsh treatment of prisoners under investigation, 99% confession and conviction rate. Zero chance of success on appeals.

So, love your deal ole USA. You may have served the nation but the Nation will junk you like a pariah dog.

Prisoners sit upright the whole day. No sloughing. No way to relax. It is not a jail in USA. And hence, if sentenced to long years, one is likely to go bonkers.

1 ( +18 / -17 )

They amount they got was pittance...all gone to expensive lawyers now. Ghosn is free in Lebanon and will never leave Lebanon. He can still global business.

I think it was revenge against Ghosn. Shame on Japan.

6 ( +20 / -14 )

All this information and no mention of what they are actually charged with.

7 ( +20 / -13 )

I hope the Taylors like miso, rice and tofu. Its all they will get for 2-3 years. Their Japanese skills will improve rapidly, since no english will be permitted in prison.

Ive said it all along, they should have stayed in Lebanon permanently with their $Millions and lived like Kings. Bad mistake.

-8 ( +13 / -21 )

These guys won't crack like the Japanese do when they are interrogated. These guys are not some weak chumps! If you get time search what these guys have done in their life, and you will find they are quite awesome!

4 ( +21 / -17 )

will not be indicted immediately but will likely face charges after an investigation is concluded.

So it means they were extradited without any charges even being filed against them?

It will be interesting to see what charge the prosecutors eventually make.

24 ( +25 / -1 )

Ive said it all along, they should have stayed in Lebanon permanently with their $Millions and lived like Kings. Bad mistake.

Yes. What do Americans pay their taxes for? Their government doesn't protect them.

14 ( +22 / -8 )

I would confess immediately, take the sentence, and ask for it to be suspended, stop at a sushi shop for my last meal before going to the bank and being deported.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

I thought foreigners non residents were not allowed to come here.

Will they have the mandatory two weeks quarantine in a designated hotel before going to the nearest koban for questioning ?

8 ( +18 / -10 )

I hope their lawyer advises them to plead guilty. If they do they'll probably get a suspended sentence.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

@Ricky Sanchez

These guys are not some weak chumps! If you get time search what these guys have done in their life, and you will find they are quite awesome!

If they are so awesome, how did they get caught? They are supposed to be experts at covert action, right? Oh, I guess their mission needed to be at night, in a jungle or half-destroyed city somewhere, where brown people live, for the operation to be successful. I see.

2 ( +14 / -12 )

Received a paltry amount of money, for what lays ahead for them.

Ghosns collateral damages.

These mercenaries rolled the dice and lost.

And guess what.

They will get the book thrown at them.

By all accounts survival, and retaining ones sanity, in a Japanese prison, won’t be easy.

11 ( +15 / -4 )

Almost lost confidence in Japan on this one. Glad they are determined and justice will be served.

-7 ( +13 / -20 )

Aren't they putting the cart in front of the horse? You get Ghosn first, then you go after the small fish

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Funny how Japanese culture is still respectful enough to protect the accused with tarps hiding them from cameras. Show their faces! Already all over the press. They should own up to their wrong doings.

-9 ( +9 / -18 )

Couple of gungho's that couldn't help but shout their mouths and show off about their exploits to TV, magazines, etc. Morons.

I have no idea what special forces unit that guy says he was in, but most special forces types are quiet, reserved and unassuming; and definitely a lot smarter than these two twits.

This clown was likely infantry cannon fodder and just has delusions of grandeur.

Definitely "special"

-4 ( +10 / -14 )

This is going to be a huge diplomatic headache for Japan. The Taylors' lawyers are going to play up every single human right violation their clients will suffer in Japan, as they should, and it's going to be bad publicity for Japan.

In a way, it's a good thing. Keep shining a bright light on Japan's injustice system.

12 ( +23 / -11 )

I hope their lawyer advises them to plead guilty. If they do they'll probably get a suspended sentence.

Yes, but then they would have to pay an embellished, exorbitant fine.

It is worth noting that foriegners in Japan are expected to pay more. Japan still thinks that the world is it's cash cow.

(Generally, when Japanese pay compensation amongst themselves, the judge will drop the amount demanded by 10%. That does not happen with people of "non Japanese status", and the amount is often doubled).

4 ( +13 / -9 )

Personally i don't see why people are even blaming the US for betraying them.

First off, they made their bet by accepting cash to do this. They weren't smuggling some poor kid out of some war torn country but a rich guy who was undergoing trial in front of the nation. Secondly they also involve many innocent people in their operation without telling them the risk. Causing many to suffer for their actions. Thirdly they intentionally make use of a loophole in Japan law for personal benefit and think they can never get extradited to Japan.

I don't care if they pax their taxes or not or if they had serve the nation. The US must be crazy if they defended them. Why would the US worsen their relationship with one of their most important key ally in the west for 2 person who clearly use their skills to operate in a foreign country while also trying to find loopholes in Japan laws? The US and Japan clearly intend to make a example out of them in order to prevent it from ever happening again. It serve as a warning to those who thinks they are above the law and can just do whatever they want in other countries.

Plus i heard is a merely 3 year sentence for their involvement if they lose their case. Fight half of that in court and in a year or two they would be out already. At least the prison food here is better. When they get out, the pandemic will be over too. Ghosn did pay them handsomely for taking this kind of risk.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

Hearing about his collaborators’ extradition to Japan, Ghosn must be breaking out into a cold sweat in sunny Lebanon.

-1 ( +10 / -11 )

He wanted the money, sure. But it took a special kind of idiocy to get his son into this. Now he has lost the money, freedom, and his son.

Ghosn must be laughing on his floor now

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

They've had a year to gather evidence and the lot. yet there's no timeframe... Anyone taking bets on when their case will be heard and tried? I'll put 500 yen on next year.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

I hope that NISSAN is up to the task, and I hope that this trial will expose all the lies and scams that led to this mess.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

will not be indicted immediately but will likely face charges after an investigation is concluded.

Held without charge. Why did the US allow this?

2 ( +13 / -11 )

This is a good development. Now to get hold of their shifty employer. Any chance the Japanese Defence Force could snatch him back from Lebanon? Suppose not! Pity.

-8 ( +7 / -15 )

What A Mess.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

What can possibly be gained from U.S. Army Special Forces veteran Michael Taylor, 60, and his son, Peter Taylor, 28,

Absolutely nothing.

Father has been trained to resist interrogation.

Would it not then be a feasible conclusion Father has not fully prepared his son.

With the world and this wife peering over the Japanese justice system, does it no follow this current US Government will not be politically aware of this fact.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

@Alan Harrison Please provide evidence to support this statement. (Generally, when Japanese pay compensation amongst themselves, the judge will drop the amount demanded by 10%. That does not happen with people of "non Japanese status", and the amount is often doubled)

And then this 'Japan still thinks that the world is it's cash cow.' You do know that the biggest holder of American foreign debt is Japan!

0 ( +6 / -6 )

*Have all the ‘Japanese co-conspirators’ in Ghosn’s ‘cake walk’ been identified, captured & paraded like this? *

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Again the world is watching.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Dear Taylors, welcome back to Japan, now that you have come back through the front door this time, and with lots of Cameras and law men, I have some advice for the two of you,

1- Remain Calm

2- Respect all rules

3- Respect the personal around you, including those who may end up locking you up.

4- Respect the culture and its people

5-Do NOT compare your homeland with Japan, this could really do some harm to both of you.

6- Be extremely Patient

I pray for both of you, and I hope that you prevail, Good Luck

0 ( +9 / -9 )

They're gonna do another Houdini act and then this is all going to be a great Netflix documentary.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Of course the Taylors have been charged. An Extradition Request could not have been submitted without it.

The Taylors' charges have nothing to do with the Nissan/Ghosn issue. Their case is simply aiding and abetting a person out on bail and probably breaking various immigration laws. They aren't going to be "tortured" and there's nothing to "confess" since they've admitted to everything. They are not going to to put the Japanese Legal System in the world's spotlight. Only Ghosn could have done that, but he chose not to.

Will they be providing lots of information? Definitely. Japan adopted Plea Bargaining back in 2017. Hell they might even offer to kidnap Ghosn out of Lebanon..LOL.

Paid former SF, took a clandestine job, got very well paid for it. But spent alot of it pointlessly fighting the Extradition request in Massachusetts, and they're going to spend more in legal fees in Japan. They bragged and talked about it, and let themselves get caught. DAs. Ghosn is out of the picture relaxing in Lebanon, surrounded by his private security force to ensure that people like the Taylors don't come after him.

6 ( +15 / -9 )

Japan justice system, be warry what you wish for... you might just get it.

Your moral imperative in this is one dimensional. You have only one thing to gain, but everything else to lose.

These guys are not tourists legally blindsided with fright, they are not migrants dreading over the threat of being sent back to their home country, they are not the local us navy sailor potato peeler you can steam roll.

Your system completely relies on compliance, and these guys have no reason to comply with any of your nonsense at any level.

YoU cAn'T SpEak enRisH iN jAPanESe pRiSoN... yeah? Or what? You'll beat or starve them to death? Righhht.

Hanoi Hilton ... Tokyo Tower

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

Again laughing about some comments.

Japan has his own constitution like any other countries. If human rights are violated because they can be detained for 20 days is nothing compared with other countries.

America also have death penalty and many died innocent. But america is a great country of course.

Anyway helping someone escape is a crime. Why should they not be punished for this action? They took the risk and now they need to face the consequences. This is the same for everyone.

Some say america should next have handed over those two to japan but there is an agreement between the countries but not complying would be a violation also.

Those two gentlemen knew the risk and Carlos is laughing because he is safe in country were there is no exchange agreement.

Those two are acting based on money and now they need to pay.

4 ( +14 / -10 )

Best news of the day!

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

when the police knocked on his house the maid answered

where's Carlos?

he's gone

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

20 days detention with the threat of 3 years is nothing for these guys, special forces, shut up do the 3 years take the money walk away !

Thats what they were trained for and paid for .

if they had any smarts the money would have been invested ........not spent as some posters have suggested !!

1.3 million for 3 years, do the maths !

Some people are too naive !!

11 ( +14 / -3 )

They can say Sayonara for a while!!!

3 ( +6 / -3 )

The Taylors will not be indicted immediately

Nope. They will get 21 days. Then 21 more... and 21 more...

Juck the Fapanese police and their justice.

2 ( +12 / -10 )

They won't break these two no matter how many ice picks they stick in their balls.

ROFL, they don’t need to.

These guys tooted their own horn enough!!!

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Two Americans would not go to jail for years. They are not main target but Ghosn is. It seems to me Japanese prosecutors want more detailed information about the Ghosn's escape plan. These guys will be convicted anyway and the penalty is they give up all money Ghosn paid for the escape plan. They probably would go home after they made true confession and all money was back to Japan.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

What will they be charged with ?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Those wimpy Japanese prosecutors will probably have to change their underwear 2 or 3 times a day while interrogating these guys. These 2 guys have been in a lot of real life or death situations and the father is highly trained in interrogation and torture techniques.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

To all Americans that are on here who are always criticizing Japan and the people of Japan, no matter how bad my country is, it will never equate nor be worse than ‘Merica.

I see that we have problems here with racism (not trying to justify racism) and the justice system has its issues that needs urgent revision, however, we will never commit such a heinous crime against another race and indiscriminately attack them regardless of their age!

Before you start pointing things out about Japan please fix the hole you are all so proud of. The same hole that is governed by bunch of imbeciles who privatized HEALTH CARE, one of the most essential part of modern quality of life.

And to all foreigners who also bad mouth Japan, again, we are not perfect and I do appreciate constructive criticism, but when I see people nitpick every aspect of our society, it boils my blood. To those who are commenting and currently living in Japan, if you think that my country is so bad, remember that aint no one begging you to stay! I know some of you are going to make inconsiderate comment like “we are only trying to help Japan become a better place” but the truth is, you are trying to mold Japan in to what you consider “better”.

I myself grew up in Canada so I can sympathize with most of you about being an expat and it can be frustrating. My time in Canada had a lot of positives but it also had many trying times. With globalization we need to find a common ground and change for the better, but this goes for all nations and not just for Japan.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@kwatt

Why should the money be paid back to Japan?

It is not Japan's money so that would be theft.

The fine is 30man.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@ Mark

Dear Taylors, welcome back to Japan, now that you have come back through the front door this time, and with lots of Cameras and law men, I have some advice for the two of you,

*1- Remain Calm -*what for

*2- Respect all rules - *they will not be your ordinary J-prisoners, the rules were set on their return (conditions)

*3- Respect the personal around you, including those who may end up locking you up. *That is a given respect will go both ways

*4- Respect the culture and its people LOL *in prison? You mean prison culture again that is a given

*5-Do NOT compare your homeland with Japan, this could really do some harm to both of you. *There is no need to compare again the conditions were already set when the US turned them over

*6- Be extremely Patient - *Ex special force members are trained to be patient if you know anything about what their training is.

I pray for both of you, and I hope that you prevail, Good Luck you can pray for them but what a lot of the posters fail to realize is this is a "HIGH PROFILE CASE" because of the treaty the US is basically following the laws based on the treaty, with that said and "BEING IN THE KNOW" these guys will just do their time and be released and HOLLYWOOD will be waiting for them to produce a movie on how they did it. There was a lot of behind the scenes negotiation done before turning these guys over. The US has to make face because they have an extradition treaty with Japan and Japan has to settle the score with the people of the country because they were embarrassed that Ghosn escape. This is a made for holly wood movie and their sentence was already negotiated 3 years at the most and they will be royal prisoners we the public will not hear anything else about it except for when they are released and sent back to the US to negotiate movie rights!!

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Dear Taylors, welcome back to Japan, now that you have come back through the front door this time, and with lots of Cameras and law men, I have some advice for the two of you,

1- Remain Calm

2- Respect all rules

3- Respect the personal around you, including those who may end up locking you up.

4- Respect the culture and its people

5-Do NOT compare your homeland with Japan, this could really do some harm to both of you.

6- Be extremely Patient

I pray for both of you, and I hope that you prevail, Good Luck

Probably the best peice of advice, along with all the good advice above is : Stay SIlient.

Good Luck also. Remember, the prosecutor is only a bureaucrat.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Dear Taylors, welcome back to Japan, now that you have come back through the front door...

I'm sure the Taylors will read your letter with great interest.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

I wonder if US servicepersons are against this extradition? As a US civilian living in Japan I am against extradition to Japan unless and until there are checks on the prosecutor. It is clearly not a first world country with respect to criminal justice. The only check to the prosecutor that I can see is with respect to the political and business elite who are by and large never prosecuted.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

There's a treaty and you didn't sign it, so it doesn't matter if you are "against" it or not.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Why should the money be paid back to Japan?

It is not Japan's money so that would be theft.

The fine is 30man.

Because Japan has additional laws allowing for the proceeds of crime to be seized and/or repaid. The rules are complex but I wouldn't be surprised if they apply here. The problem will be enforcing any order outside of Japan.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Japanese legal system is seriously flawed. If you are arrested you are basically already convicted.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

You come to Japan?

You follow Japanese rules and laws! ! !

Just like when we come to your country. No special get out of jail card just cause I'm a foreigner and I don't agree with your countries laws. Remember how that works?

Japanese have to follow this laws and rules in our own country.... But the Foreigner is upset! ! Not fair! ! Japan bias! !

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Why he decided to return and live in America, where he knew he could be arrested, I’ll never know.

Because he clearly thought his status as a veteran would protect him from any and all consequences. Some boot-boys demand a discount at Waffle House; others demand a carte blanche to commit international crimes.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Japan is a country who is against extradition , yet any other country compliant to Japanese?? Ok what if a Japanese was wanted in the USA for raping a girl for their adult videos ??? Japan would refuse extradition so why allow Japan to do extradition makes no sense folks

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Legally their case is “decoupled” from the Ghosn case and this case is not dependent on the guilt or innocence of Ghosn.

These guys are guilty and actually have been caught on camera and have admitted to getting Ghosn out of Japan. They will be tried and convicted; rightfully so.

If one wants to argue against the process that is different.! It would seem some formal charge would be required for extradition but the U.S. allowed the extradition so any questions about that cannot be solely directed at Japan.

Regardless those two men are in for son tough years ahead.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

 It is clearly not a first world country with respect to criminal justice. 

Ha ha ha... and America is? The US judicial system is a joke!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

State Department should have never let these two American citizens extradited to Japan. They helped Ghosn who was tortured by the Japanese government to escape ill treatment. It is terrible to do that to these two people. They're heroes for helping a man who was facing arrogance by rogue government of Japan. They should have never been sent to Japan. It is a shame how they released to arrogant Japanese government. Injustice should have never happened.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

State Department should have never let these two American citizens extradited to Japan. They helped Ghosn who was tortured by the Japanese government to escape ill treatment. It is terrible to do that to these two people. They're heroes for helping a man who was facing arrogance by rogue government of Japan. They should have never been sent to Japan. It is a shame how they released to arrogant Japanese government. Injustice should have never happened.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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