crime

Former Nissan executive Kelly denies helping Ghosn hide earnings

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By Tim Kelly

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... but a ruling may not come until next year.

Next year: 2022. This has been such along confinement (since 2019!) on such a very weak charge.

0 ( +14 / -14 )

Former Nissan executive Kelly denies helping Ghosn hide earnings

It's not his idea, he was not involved in any planning, he was not approving anything. He just being consulted since that is required by his position.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

Next year: 2022. This has been such along confinement (since 2019!) on such a very weak charge.

It's longer than that, it's from 2018 not 2019.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

... but a ruling may not come until next year.

Next year: 2022. This has been such along confinement (since 2019!) on such a very weak charge.

In any normal country with a normal rule of law, the judges would just throw this out. But unfortunatly in Japan, judges are just the prosecutors poodles been taken for walkies.

-2 ( +17 / -19 )

Actually I helped him and I would do it again.

-16 ( +4 / -20 )

In any normal country with a normal rule of law

You mean countries like USA and UK where capitalists are allowed to run wild and commit all range of white collar crimes with a slap on the wrist by way of a fine equivalent to 1% of their ill-gotten gains is the worst they can expect?

Lucky Japan isn't "a normal" country yet. In China or Russia neither Ghosn or his accomplices would never have been given bail. In USA or UK he would never have been arrested. If a worker at the Nissan factory in Michigan or Manchester stole $5000 from Nissan, he or she'd have the book thrown at them!

1 ( +17 / -16 )

It can't be helped. If he knew details about ghosn's compensation before 2010 then it's likely he also knows about compensation after

9 ( +15 / -6 )

Go to jail.

Go directly to jail.

Do not pass GO.

Do not collect $200.

2 ( +16 / -14 )

Kelly and Ghosn, who also denies the charges, have both said they are victims of a boardroom coup by former colleagues worried the latter would push through a merger between Nissan and Renault SA, its largest shareholder.

That's exactly what they are.

-5 ( +11 / -16 )

Ghosn probably thought he could just settle the charges like he did in the US

8 ( +16 / -8 )

Why should I flee the french judiciary? Ghosn said in a broadcast interview. "I have a clear conscience."

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@Paul

You mean countries like USA and UK where capitalists are allowed to run wild and commit all range of white collar crimes with a slap on the wrist by way of a fine equivalent to 1% of their ill-gotten gains is the worst they can expect?

You don't seem to realize that the Japanese "capitalists" at Nissan who ratted out their foreign colleagues arranged a plea bargain with prosecutors, allowing them to escape without even a "slap on the wrist," while a compliant media didn't disclose their identities.

1 ( +16 / -15 )

You don't seem to realize that the Japanese "capitalists" at Nissan who ratted out their foreign colleagues arranged a plea bargain with prosecutors, allowing them to escape without even a "slap on the wrist," while a compliant media didn't disclose their identities.

That's natural everywhere, testifying against the most guilty to escape/lessen punishment.

Unfortunately ghosn can't do that. Can't Kelly?

0 ( +9 / -9 )

You don't seem to realize that the Japanese "capitalists" at Nissan who ratted out their foreign colleagues

I think that says it all. One mafia faction who were/are satisfied with their million $+ salaries ratted out another who weren't satisfied with their multi-million $ salaries.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

I think that says it all. One mafia faction who were/are satisfied with their million $+ salaries ratted out another who weren't satisfied with their multi-million $ salaries.

I don't know the story behind this story.

You mean this all stemmed from ghosn wanting(demanding) more?

8 ( +8 / -0 )

You mean this all stemmed from ghosn wanting(demanding) more?

Who'd a thunk it? Are you being sarcastic? It was about Ghosn and Kelly "stealing more". Much more. His US 8mil + salary wasn't enough. It probably cost that much for the staging a lavish wedding at the Palace of Versailles at which his guests dressed as 18th century French aristocrats.

Was he oblivious as to what happened to 18th century French aristocrats or was he sending a message that he is above the law and no one can do anything about it?

6 ( +17 / -11 )

the stress on this man and his wife/family must be enoooooormous! cruel and unusual punishment even though he's innocent (until proved guilty... isn't that how it's supposed go?). yet more political theatre.

-5 ( +9 / -14 )

Thanks @Paul.

No, I'm not being sarcastic, I truly don't know much about this.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

the stress on this man and his wife/family must be enoooooormous! cruel and unusual punishment even though he's innocent (until proved guilty... isn't that how it's supposed go?). yet more political theatre.

He was living comfortably in his house before he fled right?

12 ( +16 / -4 )

The trial seems going on for a couple of decades.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

His US 8mil + salary wasn't enough. It probably cost that much for the staging a lavish wedding at the Palace of Versailles at which his guests dressed as 18th century French aristocrats.

Haha tbh he should be getting the gallows just for that, what an absolute pompous twat. It worked out for Japan though, oily Carlos is stuck in Lebanon forever, never to wield a position of power or influence again, his daily wakeup a humiliation, and at the complete mercy of Hezbollah when they want him to start funding their terrorist activities again. Absolutely good riddance lmao

4 ( +15 / -11 )

Haha tbh he should be getting the gallows just for that, what an absolute pompous twat. It worked out for Japan though, oily Carlos is stuck in Lebanon forever, never to wield a position of power or influence again, his daily wakeup a humiliation, and at the complete mercy of Hezbollah when they want him to start funding their terrorist activities again. Absolutely good riddance lmao

Could not agree more, out of sight out of mind

6 ( +14 / -8 )

Carlos is not should not be the focus of Kellys trail as read court documents Nissan (Japanese executive’s ) were also doing the exact same thing but cut a deal, freeing them of prosecution on the same charges. Kelly’s position was well out of arms reach of any such decision making unlike his Japanese counterparts. It’s just a vindictive and petty prosecution that’s needs a win a in muddled badly handled arrest and embarrassing fall out, based on an internal secret report that contained nothing illegal. Just hearsay innuendo.

Also most telling the court documents say the Japanese executives wanted him (Carlos) arrested because he might have made a business decision they didn’t like. Kelly way swept up as he was a foreigner too. It’s a farce that’s taking too long to resolve. Called to attend an ambush, that’s entrapment.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

The Japanese authorities won't stop until they find a fall guy to aim their anger at being humiliated. And that fall guy has to be a foreigner.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

@Paul,

Are you serious? Stealing more? IF all he wanted was more money, he would have taken the offer by the Obama administration to head GM in 2009, where he would have gotten double what he was making before he took the pay cut. He himself even said he regrets not taking the offer considering what he is going through now. He may be guilty or he may not be. I personally don't believe he is guilty based of what I have read about him and the case. Do I think he is a perfect angel? No. If he is guilty of any of what has been said, then he should face the consequences. But spreading misinformation is not right either and there seems to be a lot of it going around. I see a lot of internet lawyers here who automatically assume someone is guilty just because you read somewhere that they were.

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

Are you serious? Stealing more? IF all he wanted was more money, he would have taken the offer by the Obama administration to head GM in 2009, where he would have gotten double what he was making before he took the pay cut. He himself even said he regrets not taking the offer considering what he is going through now. 

How did you know he would have gotten more? Do you know his actual compensation which even Kelly says he doesn't?

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Alan HarrisonToday 07:02 am JST

In any normal country with a normal rule of law, the judges would just throw this out. But unfortunatly in Japan, judges are just the prosecutors poodles been taken for walkies.

In USA you can pay huge fines to regulators to avoid prosecution in case of hiding USD 140,- million - this is what Ghosn and Kelly did, but in Japan this is not so easy.

Laws and the justice system are different from country to country.

Can you name any country which you consider as 'normal'?

8 ( +12 / -4 )

The day Ghosn abandoned his mate Kelly and fled like a coward was the day Ghosn signed his guilty plea. What a disgrace he is to all expats in Japan. Pathetic doesn't come close to what he is

3 ( +12 / -9 )

i feel very sad for what Kelly is passing through.

after all this calvary to prove his innocent, he lost 4 years.

no matter the results, the "This is Japan" justice is so medieval.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

CrickyToday 11:23 am JST

Carlos is not should not be the focus of Kellys trail as read court documents Nissan (Japanese executive’s ) were also doing the exact same thing but cut a deal, freeing them of prosecution on the same charges. 

How is this different from other countries like USA? If an accused is willing to co-operate with police investigators and prosecutors and testifies against other accused, he gets often away with a lenient sentence or charges will be dropped.

Further, also USA has the system of a plea bargain, quite similar to Japan. You confess, regardless if you did the crime or not, and your punishment will be considerably reduced.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

@Yohan

that's not how justice works.

it's supposed to be equal and fair.

you cannot just pick up who to convict and who not to.

that's not how plea bargaining works.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

Dressed usually in a dark suit and red striped tie, Kelly has sat quietly through months of testimony from witnesses such as former Chief Executive Hiroto Saikawa, former vice president in charge of legal affairs Hari Nada and Toshiaki Ohnuma, an official who oversaw details of Ghosn's compensation.

This is what I find so outrageous about this trial, which is just a mockery of justice.

Basically its just been a parade of executives most of who had much higher degrees of involvement in the shenanigans that went on yet have faced zero consequences for them testifying against a guy who had very little involvement in it at all yet is the only one being prosecuted for it.

And yet it proceeds.

While Japanese courts are famous for their 99.9% conviction rate, the case against Kelly is so ridiculous I think his odds of an acquittal are probably a lot higher than that figure would normally suggest. Not that I would ever bet against Japanese courts convicting an innocent person based on a BS case anyway, but I think he has a fighting chance.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

@ian,

Please Google it. There are plenty of articles about the offer from Steven Rattner being double what he was making in 2009. Carlos declined the offer due to his loyalty to Renault and Nissan. By my calculation, he was making roughly $10mil+ a year from Renault-Nissan at that time. If he was all about making himself richer, it was dumb for him to decline it. If he had of taken it, he might not be in the situation he is now.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

@Tango2179,

How did you know he was only making what ever amount it was at that time? Ghosn was being charged precisely for fraudulently hiding his compensation right?

In the US he was charged of hiding more than 140M but thanks to an exemplary judicial system he only paid 1M and wasn't jailed

6 ( +10 / -4 )

KEY POINTS

Carlos Ghosn said he regrets not entertaining an offer by the Obama administration to become CEO of General Motors in 2009.

Ghosn said Obama auto czar Steven Rattner offered him double his salary at the time to lead GM.

Ghosn used the rebuff as an example of why the depiction of him as a “cold, greedy dictator” in the Japanese media was inaccurate.

Obama auto czar Steven Rattner, as detailed in his 2010 book “Overhaul” about the government’s auto industry bailout, asked Ghosn if he would “be interested” in leading America’s largest automaker.

Ghosn said Rattner offered him double his salary to lead GM, however Ghosn was committed to heading the Nissan-Renault Alliance, which in preceding years had separately been in talks with the Detroit automaker as well as then-Chrysler to potentially join the alliance.

Ghosn regrets not accepting US offer to lead GM for double his salary (cnbc.com)

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

bokudaToday 12:16 pm JST

@Yohan

that's not how justice works.

it's supposed to be equal and fair.

you cannot just pick up who to convict and who not to.

that's not how plea bargaining works.

In case of plea bargain in USA it is irrelevant if the accused actually did the crime or not. Innocent, but poor US-citizens often choose the plea bargain to get out of detention quickly with a minimum of hassle.

Name me a country where justice is equal and fair for you, surely this cannot be USA, where convictions are strongly influenced by gender, celebrity status, race and of course the wallet of the accused.

Interesting is also to mention the place where within USA the crime is committed. California and Florida for example have totally different laws (for example bankruptcy), what is a serious crime in one state is not a crime at all in the other state... LOL -

Within USA the legal system is really nothing but an very expensive chaos and good business for lawyers and even privately managed prisons.

However even USA, after a long detention of the accused over many months - bail denied - finally extradited these two US-guys who helped Ghosn to escape 'injustice' to Japan.

The US Supreme Court did not accept the argument that they will be treated unfairly and subjected to “mental and physical torture” in Japan.

BTW, a Turkish court convicted an executive of a Turkish jet company and two pilots for migrant smuggling in flying Ghosn out of Japan during his escape to Lebanon and sentenced them to four years.

The only one still at large who escaped justice is Ghosn, but living in poor and corrupt Lebanon next to Israel is not a safe place at all, and he has nowhere to go....

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Yes ghosn said GM offered him double his official salary at that time.

Clear. Crystal.

So any idea why he didn't take it?

8 ( +10 / -2 )

In case of plea bargain in USA it is irrelevant if the accused actually did the crime or not. Innocent, but poor US-citizens often choose the plea bargain to get out of detention quickly with a minimum of hassle.

Name me a country where justice is equal and fair for you, surely this cannot be USA, where convictions are strongly influenced by gender, celebrity status, race and of course the wallet of the accused.

Interesting is also to mention the place where within USA the crime is committed. California and Florida for example have totally different laws (for example bankruptcy), what is a serious crime in one state is not a crime at all in the other state... LOL -

Within USA the legal system is really nothing but an very expensive chaos and good business for lawyers and even privately managed prisons.

However even USA, after a long detention of the accused over many months - bail denied - finally extradited these two US-guys who helped Ghosn to escape 'injustice' to Japan.

The US Supreme Court did not accept the argument that they will be treated unfairly and subjected to “mental and physical torture” in Japan.

Yup, that is an impressive collection of random bad stuff about American justice.

None of which in any way changes the fact that this prosecution in Japan is a farce.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

Name me a country where justice is equal and fair for you, surely this cannot be USA

all 1st world countries respect the international human rights conventions but Japan.

Kelly's treatment should be a heads up to put even more economic restrictions to Japan.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

So basically, Ghosn was hiding money, but nobody wants to take the blame. Extradite ghosn to France, then here.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

So any idea why he didn't take it?

I watched an interview where he was asked that question. The answer he gave was, "A captain does not abandon his ship."

you can believe him or not, but that's the answer he gave

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Yup, that is an impressive collection of random bad stuff about American justice.

None of which in any way changes the fact that this prosecution in Japan is a farce.

exactly. Well said.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

So any idea why he didn't take it?

I watched an interview where he was asked that question. The answer he gave was, "A captain does not abandon his ship."

you can believe him or not, but that's the answer he gave

Well that's easy. How did he end up with this particular ship if he didn't leave his previous ship/s in the first place?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Well that's easy. How did he end up with this particular ship if he didn't leave his previous ship/s in the first place?

Well that's easy. He Managed them together. He was Captain of Renault before Nissan- hence the corporate merger.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

 Ghosn was also the chairman and CEO of the Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi Alliance, a strategic partnership among those automotive manufacturers through a complex cross-shareholding agreement. 

Carlos Ghosn - Wikipedia

So basically, he was the captain of many ships and tried to turn them into a fleet

1 ( +4 / -3 )

It is an utter disgrace how this man, Mr Kelly , is treated.

let him go home.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

So he didn't captain any other ships before those, interesting.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

So he didn't captain any other ships before those, interesting.

He did. Micheline

After graduation in 1978, Ghosn spent 18 years at Michelin, Europe's largest tire maker, initially training and working in several plants in France and Germany.[46][51] In 1981, he became plant manager in Le Puy-en-Velay, France.[46][52] In 1984 he was named head of research and development for the company's industrial tire division.[46][53]

In 1985, when Ghosn was 30 years old, he was appointed chief operating officer (COO) of Michelin's South American operations.[46][54] He returned to Rio de Janeiro, reporting directly to François Michelin, who tasked Ghosn with turning around the operation, which was unprofitable and struggling under Brazil's hyperinflation.[54][55] Ghosn formed cross-functional management teams to determine best practices among the French, Brazilian, and other nationalities working in the South American division.[56] The multicultural experience in Brazil formed the basis of his cross-cultural management style and emphasis on diversity as a core business asset.[56][57] "You learn from diversity ... but you're comforted by commonality", Ghosn has said.[58] The division returned to profitability in two years.[56][59][60]

After turning around Michelin's South American operations, Ghosn was appointed president and COO of Michelin North America in 1989, and moved to Greenville, South Carolina, with his family.[61] He was promoted to CEO of Michelin North America in 1990.[56][61] He presided over the restructuring of the company after its acquisition of the Uniroyal Goodrich Tyre Company.[

Carlos Ghosn - Wikipedia

He turned THAT company around and then went to the companies he was managing until he was ousted

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@ ian,

Please do some research. He didn't abandon any previous "ship". He actually saved part of one (Michelin) he was working for before Renault. He worked for Michelin from 1978-1996, when he was offered a position at Renault. If you read his work history, you would know that he stays with a company even when its doing bad. I don't know the man, and I'm not a supporter. My feelings on the matter are that all people should be given a fair chance and not accused of something they may or may not have done without proof and actual evidence. If the man says he is innocent, I give him the benefit of the doubt and allow the prosecutors to actually prove his guilt by providing real evidence.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

So why did he accept the offer of Renault?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

I give him the benefit of the doubt and allow the prosecutors to actually prove his guilt by providing real evidence.

My sentiments are the same.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

And I'm not saying he abandoned any ship, I don't even think that analogy is appropriate.

I'm merely saying that he was clearly bullshitting people when he said that.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

They are determined to punish him for the crimes they were never able to find enough evidence to punish Ghosn for. "Japanese justice system" is an oxymoron.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

What a show of unique legislation and standards.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Can you name any country which you consider as 'normal'?

Every country except Japan. Japan certainly is unique.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The day Ghosn abandoned his mate Kelly and fled like a coward was the day Ghosn signed his guilty plea. What a disgrace he is to all expats in Japan. Pathetic doesn't come close to what he is

The day Ghosn escaped from the jurisdiction of Japanese so-called justice like a hero was the day Japans prosecutors were exposed as cowards. What a disgrace prosecutors and judges are to the peoples of Japan. Pathetic doesn't come close to what they are.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Clearly this is a case that only nissan is responsible.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

He turned THAT company around and then went to the companies he was managing until he was ousted

This is such a simplistic comment, one can't help but speculate you have a hidden motive.

Her didn't increase market share at all. It continued to decrease. He merely ruthlessly laid off workers and cut the salaries, pensions and other benefits of the Nissan workers. He saved the company a lot of money, got a US$8 million + salary (compared to that other struggling Japanese carmaker, Toyota whose CEO was paid a little over US$1million) . But the 8mil wasn't enough for Ghosn. It cost about that much alone to hold his wedding party at the Palace of Versailles where all his guests dressed as 18th century French aristocrats. So he stole much more. Got caught. Knew he was guilty and the prosecutors had the goods on him so he fled the country. Now he is stuck in Lebanon forever or until financial pressure forces Lebanon to extradite him.

His accomplice(s) will hopefully have the book throw at him/them and the guys who helped Ghosn will surely do many years of hard time. See how much they enjoy the big money stolen from Nissan workers from inside a high security Japanese penitentiary.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Mummer's farce. Japan and Nissan have wasted way more money than what Ghosn would have gotten.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Paul

do you know something we don't?

are you making out numbers and stories, or do you have some evidence that has not been released?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

This is such a simplistic comment, one can't help but speculate you have a hidden motive.

I could throw that same baseless accusation at you.

Her didn't increase market share at all. It continued to decrease. He merely ruthlessly laid off workers and cut the salaries, pensions and other benefits of the Nissan workers.

This is such a simplistic comment, one can't help but speculate you have a hidden motive or don't understand the world of business.

He saved the company a lot of money, got a US$8 million + salary (compared to that other struggling Japanese carmaker, Toyota whose CEO was paid a little over US$1million) .

Did Toyota's CEO rescue the company from bankruptcy??

Got caught. Knew he was guilty and the prosecutors had the goods on him so he fled the country.

Then why didn't the gov or Nissan indict him? Why keep him in detention without charging him if the prosecutors had the goods on him?

His accomplice(s) will hopefully have the book throw at him/them and the guys who helped Ghosn will surely do many years of hard time. See how much they enjoy the big money stolen from Nissan workers from inside a high security Japanese penitentiary.

wishful thinking

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Paul

do you know something we don't?

Nah

are you making out numbers and stories, or do you have some evidence that has not been released?

the former.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

“Go to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. “ These people are all guilty. Why would he be hiding in a box and plan a stow away?! That alone is conspiracy. If you have nothing to hide you stay put!

If one is not guilty you do not add more problems to your case. Something does not taste good here no matter how you cut it. They are hiding something - maybe even bigger than what it is.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Interesting fact... since Ghosn was ousted... Nissan has.. ummm.. gone down the drain. If the Board had sense, they would have let him stay whilst this happened ... right ? Or did they not know something ?

I think they should all be fired forthright.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Lebanon is considered one of the most corrupt nations on the planet by most objective measures. It is a nation controlled by various factions, so Ghosn is likely protected from Hizbollah by one of the “Christian” militant/mafia factions. He has deep roots in Lebanon so one can imagine he’s “at home” and very comfortable living there. In fact, according to a number of recent articles, Ghosn is apparently helping to “save” that nation’s economy, so he is quite occupied with his new “project.”

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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