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Tokyo area population outflow exceeds inflow for 1st time

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No mention though of how in the past 4 or 5 months there have been practically zero new foreigners moving into Japan, and lots that have left. Certainly must be part of this equasion.

25 ( +28 / -3 )

Koike is doing her best! Props to her!

-18 ( +6 / -24 )

@divinda you know, that’s a very good point. Especially with the ban on PR‘s reentering the country (until very recently), I can imagine all the foreigners that left. I bet when you include that as well, the net migration probably increase from other areas in Japan, rather than decreased. But like you said, it didn’t mention that part.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

so this means infection rates should rise outside tokyo

-14 ( +3 / -17 )

Good news. Hope it keeps trending in that direction for the forseeable future and will make it a little easier to actually practice real social distancing. When the trains, roads and shops aren't packed like sardine cans, that is actually a good and pleasant thing!

15 ( +15 / -0 )

Tokyo has the largest number of COVID-19 cases simply because it has the largest population of all prefectures.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Now is the perfect time to promote the decentralization of the capital . Tokyo is too packed.

18 ( +18 / -0 )

Tokyo has the largest number of COVID-19 cases simply because it has the largest population of all prefectures.

Yet if taken at per capita basis, Okinawa has had nearly double the cases than Tokyo.

So it's not JUST because of the population alone!

11 ( +12 / -1 )

No mention though of how in the past 4 or 5 months there have been practically zero new foreigners moving into Japan, and lots that have left. Certainly must be part of this equasion.

EXCELLENT POINT!!

Good news. Hope it keeps trending in that direction for the forseeable future and will make it a little easier to actually practice real social distancing. When the trains, roads and shops aren't packed like sardine cans, that is actually a good and pleasant thing!

Absolutely!

Now is the perfect time to promote the decentralization of the capital . Tokyo is too packed.

100% on the money!

I really do hope this is going to be a continuous trend. I have a feeling we are going so see serious spikes in a second wave in fall and winter. If that does in fact happen, this trend will not only continue, it will accelerate. More teleworking and working from home in rural communities will make for a much happier and fulfilled populace.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Koike is doing her best! Props to her!

Woke up this morning and had a nice laugh!

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Tokyo remains the hardest-hit area, with more than 20,000 cases confirmed. The recent surge reflects increasing infections occurring at nightlife establishments or while people dine out.

Tokyo is testing far higher than the others that have succeeded going unnoticed with extremely low pcr test as the focus and attention is on Tokyo. All cities have nightlife areas but we don't hear about infections there because no testing is taking place hence no cases.

Tokyo even didn't the test restricted to shinjuku and ikebukuro when there are nightlife districts like roppongi, ginza and the mate cafes in akihabara never got any mention.

The virus containment here is like a show that something is being done.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

I couldn't imagine living in Tokyo. It's so depressing; concrete, asphalt, people, heat island in summer, so few parks and greenery....horrible.

-2 ( +14 / -16 )

I agree with Bernard on this

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

This is not good.

A few years ago, if I recall correctly, the media said that Tokyo was to expect in inflow of countryside people for the next two decades.

In essence, Tokyo, Osaka and other large urban centers were to carry japan because the small town are crumbling and rusting.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I love Tokyo!

It is a never ending Love!

It is an awesome City, where everything is available and everything is possible!

I enjoy every day here since many years.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Tokyo. It's so depressing; concrete, asphalt, people, heat island in summer, so few parks and greenery....horrible.

I agree

Perhaps you are both imagining Tokyo as "Roppongi", or some center like that.

Out my (Tokyo) window now, I hear the cicadas chirping away in the sunlit trees; there is no shortage of greenery, and few people. I've got a great park within 5 minutes, as well as other little parks (with trees, and everything) where kids like to play.

If I went well out west in Tokyo, no doubt I could dial up these settings even further, but my part of Tokyo is fantastic :)

11 ( +13 / -2 )

I know several Japanese friends, my 2 adult children know far more that have left Tokyo.

Not one actually wanted to leave but with the work situation they could not afford to remain.

Not one has gone to the outer regions to work from home, etc...

They have all gone back to live with their parents because they no longer have jobs.

All want to return to Tokyo if or when they can find a stable job again.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I don't know how long this work from home will work out for.

Most people I know are married with children including many like myself having young university graduate adult children still living at home.

At this point most are at the end of their patience, trying to work on kitchen tables, livingrooms, or like my wife and both children in their bedrooms.

Japanese homes are small few have space for home offices, young children running around while the adults try to get work done is not a good thing.

Then comes the extra costs.

Normally my wife and both my children would leave each morning for their offices, only I remain at home.

So the house other than my atelier is empty, no heat or aircon.

Now with the summer heat 4 all working in their own rooms and I in my atelier makes 4 aircons on all day.

Our electricity bill has tripled from the same time last year.

But my wife's employer has only given ¥3,000 extra per month my children's employers 0 despite all of them saving tens of thousands of ten per month by not needing to pay their employees train passes.

My situation is not unique, my neighbours have also just received their July power bills and all are in shock.

Working from home seems great until you realise you are subsidizing your employer.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@Antiquesaving

I have a question:

Did your company cut your commute fee during home office?

I am asking, because my company completely refuse home office, but now they are considering about that.

But they said, they will cut the commute fee.

So if the electricity bill rises and the commute fee is cut, that is a real financial problem, right?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

It's no bad thing to have a slightly less concentrated population in Tokyo but it can be hard for outsiders to be accepted in rural communities, people are very much nosing in each others business. A Japanese couple I know came back to Tokyo not so long ago, they lasted about a year in the countryside.

I love Tokyo, you can have a great life in the city if you choose your area well.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Im going to wait for free housing in inaka provided by government then bye bye Tokyo.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

@Monty

I myself am a Shokunin (craftsman) so I work from home in my own atelier.

Now my wife, 2 adult children are now all working here in our home.

All their employers stopped paying their commute fees.

Only my wife's company have raised her pay but by ¥3,000 a month. They are saving over ¥15,000 by having her work from home.

The extra ¥ 3,000 doesn't come close to the extra costs we incur from her working from home.

In our case it has gotten to be a problem.

Our WIFI router can not handle all the phones, laptops, needed for 4 people to work properly.

But a new router capable of handling the number of devices and speed needed would be paid by us and would need to be a professional model.

Then we have security issues both IT and physical, companies want them to have VPN, paper shredder, printer. All at the worker's expense.

My business means I already had some of these things but no way will I accept using them without compensation.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

This would be a positive development in regular times, but not the way it is happening. I doubt much of it is going to be out of choice. It will be people who've lost their jobs or students whose courses have gone online.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Larr Flint

Sounds nice in the news reports but the reality of these free houses is very different.

They are far and few between, have some very specific conditions in order to get one and most are terrible run down.

I and my wife looked for years everyone required school aged children, a minimum yearly earning.etc...

Most were really far innaka like Niigata, etc...most really old.

Low rental from cities are more available but again same requirements, house are not much better and the deal is usually only for 5 years or so.

And this being Japan most are only available to Japanese citizens, yes if your spouse is Japanese he or she can be the one applying but he or she also needs to be the one with the needed minimum income.

We found that it would have been simpler, to look for a cheap house for sale in these same areas get a mortgage if you can and buy our own house.

In the end the bank approved us for a far larger loan than we expected so we bought a smaller house in Tokyo near a station so no need to use a car just to go grocery shopping or get a litre of milk.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I love Tokyo! It is a never ending Love!

I'm sorry

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

But a new router capable of handling the number of devices and speed needed would be paid by us and would need to be a professional model.

You need to do some research! There are 6 adults in my house, we all have at a minimum of 2 devices each, that connect to our wifi, at times there are over 20 different devices connected, from the smart-phones, to laptops streaming Netflix, and Wii.

Oh my sons use vpn for their work as well, while I am on Netflix, and my son-in-law is gaming online, as his wife, my daughter, is doing research on youtube, while my wife is looking for "stuff" to buy online!

I have a linksystem router, and antenna booster, on the first floor, because the line comes in upstairs, and there are little if any problems with connections for anyone.

You talk about a "professional" model, yet all "models" are professional, and if you do a little research, you can get something reasonable for only 4 people.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@Yubaru

And how much did your linksystem router cost? Who paid for it?

My router was just fine before 4 people working from home so why should I have to buy a new one so their companies can save money and have them all work from home.

Just took a look, as far as I can see a linksystem router capable of doing as you say yours does is at least ¥40,000, why should we have to pay that?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Im going to wait for free housing in inaka provided by government then bye bye Tokyo.

The house might come free but you'll have to spend a packet getting it renovated.

I've been toying with a similar idea of finding something close to Narita once the kid goes off to college.

Biggest worry is whether I can get used to the quiet life, have lived in cities all my life!!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Ulysses

Biggest worry is whether I can get used to the quiet life, have lived in cities all my life!!

That is a very good point!

For me it is the same. It is impossible for me to live in countryside.

I am a city man.

Many people like Okinawa and want to live there.

I have been to Okinawa, but to be honest, it was veeeery boring for me. Even Nara. If you see Nara as a City.

Sorry Yubaru (I think you live in Okinawa).

Countryside is not my place to live.

I need the big City!

The lights, the sound, the Scent, all the people, the activities, the busy atmosphere....

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Sorry it is Naha, not Nara.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Good, the centralization of this city really puts great burdens on the rest of the country. This needed to happen. On the negative side, hopefully Tokyo can keep its unreasonably high prices especially for land and real estate and not export that to other areas of Japan.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Monty,

I thought the same about city life when I was young and unmarried but that changed when I started a family. I guess you are single, the perception you have now of the city will change.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@Dr. Lucifer

I am married with 1 Kid.

And I am in my mid 50s.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@drlucifer

Nope it is the opposite.

I was a single father 2 children.

Once live in the countryside, what a pain.

Far to many nosey people everyone wanting to know your business.

Schools are far after school activities that are near mandatory means needing a car to bring or pick up the children even during summer holidays.

Need milk get in car to go to the store, child sick long drive to the doctor especially on weekends and holidays no choice but the nearest major hospital all far.

City: there are 4 convenience stores within 6 minutes walk, 2 large hospitals within 15 minutes walk, 8 dentist, 4 pediatricians, 6 GP, 2 dermatologist, and 5 Otorhinolaryngologist, all within 10 minutes walk.

3 supermarkets, 5 local vegetables sellers, 3 yakitori stands, even a home center (small one) all again within 10 minutes walk.

Children needed to go to a classmate's for study/school project they can walk, countryside I had to drive them.

This is why my adult city children don't have a driver's license and aren't even interested in getting one and why their university friends from innaka all have and all have Kei cars.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@藤原

Is it?

Look at Canada and Australia.

Both created these bureaucratic nightmare capital cities in the middle of nowhere.

Out of touch with reality and the rest of the country.

Cities populated by bureaucrats, government workers, etc..that have long forgotten how the rest of the country lives.

They have created this little federal government bubble that no longer works for the people but to maintain their little bubble.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Just took a look, as far as I can see a linksystem router capable of doing as you say yours does is at least ¥40,000, why should we have to pay that?

My year old 4000 yen router does just fine. Every router these days have dual bands 2.4 / 5Ghz. Just connect devices to separate bands (priority wise) on top of that you can add extra 4000 yen router. Moreover, you can connect desktop, TV (Netflix) through LAN.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@In_japan

Not for 4 people and only if the router has at least one Gig. Capacity.

As for land I was a cable installers and in a 3 floor house even with my skills and knowledge that is a job I have no intention of taking on.

The question is a simple one everyone has sidestepped.

Why should we have to pay for any of this?

Why should the employee now have to pay for services the company is now saving on by making employees work from home?

My wife now works sitting on our bed, we never needed a desk in our room, so now she needs a desk and chair, why should we pay for them we never needed them before?

The simple point is workers are the ones whose expenses are going to go up, while the companies save on office space rent, commuter passes, internet costs, overtime pay, electric bills, etc....

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

What about the thousands of foreigners pouring into Tokyo in search of jobs you reported on recently?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Antiquesaving if you run your own business you should have got the 1 million yen plus abes 10man then if you change your business model you can get grants up to 50man yen..as long as you been paying taxes and doing the right thing..

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Northernlife

You do know the difference between My own business and someone else's business?

If I get that that is for my business especially since covid-19 my business has dropped like a rock because few people are going out few are going for tea ceremonies and those are my clients.

It is not my businesses job to pay for my wife or my children's employers costs.

So you think because I have a business I should pay the extra expenses incurred due to their companies having them work from home.

My business is my business and it is not my businesses job to subsidized some other company.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Just took a look, as far as I can see a linksystem router capable of doing as you say yours does is at least ¥40,000, why should we have to pay that?

I paid, roughly ¥55,000 if I recall correctly, and I use it for both work and private as well. So does my son, and I suspect, you would too.

It's really a small price to pay for having a reliable network. You should ask the company for money to upgrade your system.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I wonder whether demographically, Tokyo is nearing its peak size anyway.

Firstly we have a falling population - at present, unnoticeable, but it will pick up in time.

More importantly, a generation of baby boomers is retiring or near retirement. Many did not come from Tokyo but from prefectures all over Japan. It is only natural that many will want to return home or just have a larger house with a garden.

Also, many Tokyo residents will own expensive properties and could buy something in the prefectures for a fraction of the price, unlocking money for a comfortable retirement.

Some of the posts above seem to suggest that if you are not in Tokyo you are in deepest darkest inaka - far from it - there are plenty of regional cities which offer a wide range of facilities.

The other factor that might play a factor is a greater acceptance of remote working, but it seems unlikely to me.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Antiquesaving your talking about something that doesnt even cost that much and you can claim it on tax anyhow..since your business has dropped your eligible for funding.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Also, many Tokyo residents will own expensive properties and could buy something in the prefectures for a fraction of the price, unlocking money for a comfortable retirement.

But this is another problem that is happening already here. Many retirees have bought homes or moved down here, BUT they have not moved their "official" address, meaning that they dont pay much in taxes here, and they are becoming a HUGE drain on insurance resources for the local municipalities, because as they get older, they use medical services more, and WE foot the bill, but they only pay their 1/3!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Work from home in the suburb

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Our WIFI router can not handle all the phones, laptops, needed for 4 people to work properly.

But a new router capable of handling the number of devices and speed needed would be paid by us and would need to be a professional model.

Then we have security issues both IT and physical, companies want them to have VPN, paper shredder, printer. All at the worker's expense.

In your position I'd do the following:

Make a list of all the devices in the house that are using or may need to use an internet connection.

Work out how many of those must, absolutely must, connect using Wi-fi.

Work out whether it's possible and practical to set up a wired network in the house. It very likely is.

Connect as many devices by wire as possible.

Wired connections in place of Wi-fi increases stability, boosts speed, and gives more consistent speeds than wi-fi. It also reduces competition among the devices that are left over that can't be wired in to the network.

Without installed Ethernet, there are two main ways to achieve a wired network: MoCA and PowerLine.

MoCA uses wall coaxial outlets (the outlets that you plug your television antenna cable into). Many houses in Japan, including mine, a modest rental dwelling, have them in all the main rooms and on both floors. That coaxial network in the walls can be used for Ethernet-speed connection to your router. To tap into this network, you need one MoCA adapter in the room with the router (connected to the router by Ethernet cable) and a MoCA adapter in each room you want to add to the wired network. If you have multiple devices in that room, you can add an Ethernet hub in the room, 8-ports, for example, and connect the devices via individual Ethernet cables to the hub and the hub via Ethernet cable to the MoCA adapter.

The network has no trouble handling all of this. None of this will affect your TV antenna's signal or prevent TV access in any of the rooms; the adapter itself has a TV OUT port.

MoCA adapters aren't cheap, and you may need to buy them from the US anyway, because the prices here don't look equivalent. That's about the only down side. However the increase in convenience is well worth the cost. You don't need higher spec. than MoCA 2.0, the 2.5 spec costs a bit more but doesn't really boost your speed over 2.0.

Also, some MoCA adapters have wifi capability, so you can connect nearby devices wirelessly to them instead of the router if the router is at the other end of the house.

Powerline is a somewhat similar idea that sends the signal over the electrical network in your house, so in this case, the Powerline adapters plug directly into an electrical outlet. It's almost a cool idea but in practice it's considerably inferior to MoCA, providing a stable but much slower connection and adding noise to your electrical network. The adapters are quite a lot cheaper, available from Amazon Japan, and they're an option for people don't have the coaxial outlets that MoCA needs.

40,000 yen is way more than you need to spend on a router. Mine cost less than 5000 for a Gigabit/5G model, and easily supports all devices on the network. But they're almost all wired, and wired will always work better than a bunch of wifi devices, especially when they're trying to connect from rooms all over the house. Personally, I look at WiFi as an "if-you-must" technology, especially in your own home: best used if mobility is the primary requirement, or if there's simply no better connection method available.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I couldn't imagine living in Tokyo. It's so depressing; concrete, asphalt, people, heat island in summer, so few parks and greenery....horrible.

Don't like it, don't go kid, cut the tantrum..

0 ( +1 / -1 )

IMO those are all people who lost their job or were forced to work online and found it useless to spend a massive rent to live in a city they can’t afford or enjoy because of Covid. This is happening in other expensive cities elsewhere, like San Francisco or my hometown Milan.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The question is a simple one everyone has sidestepped. Why should we have to pay for any of this?

I pay for the internet connection I want rather than asking someone else to pay for it. It's my connection, and I'm not destitute.

You can probably solve your connection issues, though not without spending some money. The real question is, are you willing to take control of your problem, which may involve opening your wallet, or at the very least doing some research, or would you just prefer to bellyache about it until an uncertain point in the future when, without your having lifted a finger, everything resets to the way it was and you get back the connection speeds you used to have?

It's too late to take back the bellyaching, but not too late to do what it takes to sort out the problem for yourself and your family. That's kind of the job of the dad, innit.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

About time! Way too many people in Tokyo.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The trend of outflow from Tokyo will increase remarkably in the near future, but it's not now. I think it is a temporary reaction to people protecting themselves from the life-threatening pandemic. A heightenedawareness of danger in people's minds always causes a situation to become very fluid.

While, an awareness of working style has apparently changed from before Covid-19, some employers have a poor understanding of remote work and few leaders can easily get accustomed to it. Having said that, I believe that the necessity to stay in Tokyo will decrease gradually. After most current leaders have resigned or retired,  the people who are "Generation Y" become leaders and Tokyo will be completely changed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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