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Doctors warn of long-lasting COVID aftereffects among youths

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On Dec 3, Japan logged (officially) 3,000 Covid deaths. Now on Feb 6th, its at over 6,400.

The rate of death has accelerated rapidly. Why is this not being reported?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/japan/

3 ( +19 / -16 )

A lot of people die every year between weeks 5-8. Most people die “with COVID” and not from it. As harsh as it may sound most of them didn’t have long left anyway

-12 ( +24 / -36 )

It's also possible that these after effects are actually side effects from the volley of medications and treatments given to Covid patients.

More testing is needed.

-10 ( +19 / -29 )

Doctors "warn".

Everyone starting to see the pattern yet?

-5 ( +19 / -24 )

It's also possible that these after effects are actually side effects from the volley of medications and treatments given to Covid patients.

Still denying this virus is a threat, no matter how much proof is shown or how many deaths.

10 ( +26 / -16 )

Doctors "warn".

Everyone starting to see the pattern yet?

Is it that experts are warning of a real possibility of long-lasting aftereffects among youths?

5 ( +15 / -10 )

This should be an eye opener. Its not just about the number of deaths. People can survive a covid disease and still have lingering aftereffects. Its not either you die or you're in the clear as some might want us to believe

13 ( +21 / -8 )

Jesus, covid is a nasty virus, it has potentially terrible effects on humans, move on!

-11 ( +8 / -19 )

So let me get this right. Long-lasting covid aftereffects affect the younger generation much more? Don't tell me there's no hint of Schadenfreude among the older generation who have been forced to stay home while looking at the younger folks going around without a care in the world.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

There are long lasting consequences from this virus for anyone who caught it. Something many people have either forgotten or choose to ignore.

This was reported many months ago, although the experts were not sure of the effects on young people. Now they are. There is nothing trivial about this virus. Except to those who deny its danger.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

COVID-19 lingering lung damaged? I wonder if this will cause COPD in the future

5 ( +7 / -2 )

It's also possible that these after effects are actually side effects from the volley of medications and treatments given to Covid patients.

OK we're talking here about young people who had been diagnosed with a mild case of the COVID-19 disease. I guess the "volley of medication" for them was Ibuprofen or Paracetamol...

9 ( +10 / -1 )

No stats presented as to how prevalent it is but if it's like elsewhere this is very rare fortunately

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

It's also possible that these after effects are actually side effects from the volley of medications and treatments given to Covid patients.

No. That was taken into account from the beginning.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Hair lose. Sudden shortness of breath are also symptoms of stress.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Most people die “with COVID” and not from it. As harsh as it may sound most of them didn’t have long left anyway

Sure. You just let us know many years of your own life you'd be prepared to forego for the sake of whatever barrow it is you're trying to push. One? Two? Five? Ten? More?

Because that's how many years many of Covid's victims would have had, if they hadn't died from Covid.

11 ( +16 / -5 )

@ Penfold

Forgot to put your quote in quote marks above. Just so we know who I'm responding to.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

No stats presented as to how prevalent it is but if it's like elsewhere this is very rare fortunately

Long-lasting symptoms for COVID-19 are not described as very rare but rather common.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.07.20208702v3#:~:text=Our%20results%20show%20that%2036.1,one%20symptom%20after%2090%20days.

"Our results show that 36.1% of COVID-19+ cases have symptoms lasting longer than 30 days, and 14.8% still have at least one symptom after 90 days."

https://www.vox.com/22166236/long-term-side-effects-covid-19-symptoms-heart-fatigue

"preliminary research suggests that somewhere between 10 percent and 88 percent of Covid-19 patients will experience at least one symptom for many weeks or months. Some of these can be life-altering; one study found that 50 percent of non-ICU patients reported a significant change to their cognitive functioning."

8 ( +15 / -7 )

Please don't tell me this is 'surprising' for the Economists in charge here.

Long term after effects of Covid have been widely reported internationally from at least 7 months ago.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

between 10 percent and 88 percent of Covid-19 patients will experience at least one symptom for many weeks or months. 

Some between 10 and 88% ? What a meaningless variation

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

“Doctors warn of long-lasting COVID after effects among youths”

Well duh....they ARE young so of course the effects will last for a long time

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

I know of several people having had the virus but not one that has died.

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

The loss of smell and taste is serious making life difficult. My wife lost her smell several years ago. I have to watch out when she cooks because she can't smell burning.

Some doctors and medical experts are saying this virus is here to stay.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Some between 10 and 88% ? What a meaningless variation

Read the article, those are preliminary results from different studies, since none of them had the exact same criteria it is expected that the results are different between them (for some frequent headaches will count, for others only conditions preventing the person to be productive are are counted). The point is that even at 10% of the patients this is not something that can be called "very rare".

8 ( +13 / -5 )

zichiToday  09:31 am JST

The loss of smell and taste is serious making life difficult. My wife lost her smell several years ago.

I'm sure you meant to write sense of smell, didn't you?

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Akimoto has been sharing her experience on Twitter. "There is little information, and many people are scared. I hope I can help people deepen their understanding."

A courageous, altruistic person. I wish her good luck.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

For the macho men (because most people I see walking around without a mask are young g men).

This little thing may make you think twice.

Reports from studies in the UK and now Germany are noting sterility and low sperm count in men that had covid-19.

The studies are only preliminary and they do not know if it is temporary or permanent but if you care about ever having children now is the time to ask yourself do you want to take the risk, the choice is simple mask or the possibility of sterility.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

I know of several people having had the virus but not one that has died.

Conclusive stuff.

Publish a paper.

11 ( +15 / -4 )

I know of several people having had the virus but not one that has died.

I know 4 now 3 family members yes they were old and now one the 27 year old son of my friend back home.

He was a first responder a paramedic in very good health by all accounts. Covid-19 related pneumonia.

So before we get the false information of " covid didn't kill him the pneumonia did" it was Covid that was the cause of the pneumonia and therefore the cause of his death.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

@ virusrex Pity you didn't seem to read the article - it seems it's you who are confused. Read the article, and the actual WHO report it refers to, 'WHO Information Notice for IVD Users: Nucleic acid testing (NAT) technologies that use real-time polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) for detection of SARS-CoV-2'.

Do you think this information is in any way new? it has been already published and debunked endless times by now.

There is absolutely nothing in the article that contradicts what I wrote. Obviously testing on communities with a low number of infections would increase the rate of false positives, but not because the false positives become more numerous but because the other number necessary to obtain the rate (the true positives) would be understandably low.

Explaining it more simply.

If the test has a specificity of 99.9% that means one out of 1000 samples that are negative will turn up reported as positive by the limitations of the test.

If this test is used in a place where around 10% of the samples are actually positives, testing 10,000 samples will turn up with 1000 real positives and 10 false positives, total number 1010 positive results. A rate of 1 false positive for every 100 true ones.

If this test is used in a place with only 1% of the samples are positive the same 10,000 samples will turn up with 100 true positives and the same 10 false positives, the rate increased now to 1 false positive for every 10 true ones, but the actual number of false positives did not increase at all.

If a country is running thousands of tests and getting over 10% of positive results as happens all over the world (including Japan) this means the false positives are still an insignificant fraction of the reported numbers, this only becomes important when testing in places where there are few to none cases left, but never to a degree to think the disease is suddenly in an outbreak again. This is already taken into account when testing is performed but it is never a waste of time to remind the people in charge about it, it would not actually change that much the reported numbers, but a little bit more care increase the precision of the reporting which is always something good.

Even this very extreme example is completely different from what you wrote "a test which will automatically come up with False Positives when used beyond a certain number of cycles" This do not depend at all on the number of cycles and the test do not become positive automatically with lots of them so it does not apply. In the case of Japan for example it would only mean that from the 429 cases reported yesterday 5 to 10 would be false positives, worst case scenario it would be 419 instead of 429, hardly a "manufactured pandemic".

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Most people die “with COVID” and not from it. 

People also don’t die from HIV, but with it. What’s your point?

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Some doctors and medical experts are saying this virus is here to stay.

That's what happens when you release a chimera virus made in a CCP lab. It's a bio-weapon.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Are people ready to believe this is a serious virus that must be wiped out ASAP? Or, will they still continue to plod along as if it is just another flu?

Japan seems to be quite content with 500-800 new cases daily in Tokyo and a couple of thousand nationwide. By contrast, they found one case in Perth two weeks ago and locked down half of the city. Australia has now gone three weeks without a community transmitted case. In Japan? Well......

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Long Covid is already a well documented issue elsewhere.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

The dangers of long term covid are not something to be dismissed. Those voices which insist it's hyped are irresponsible.

That's what happens when you release a chimera virus made in a CCP lab. It's a bio-weapon.

This claim is simply false and has been thoroughly debunked.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-26/newsletter-fact-check-coronavirus-is-not-a-bioweapon/12150450

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/17/covid-19-coronavirus-did-not-come-from-a-lab-study-shows-natural-origins/?sh=648a859e3728

2 ( +6 / -4 )

So many conspiracies so much misinformation and Covid denying.

Let's get this straight, it is not the flu, it does not cause pneumonia like other causes but like other types of pneumonia the damage can be permanent.

I had I Mycoplasma pneumonia as a young man I was strong in good health worked in search and rescue so that should give people an idea of my physical health.

Normally a very treatable disease but for some unknown reason it resisted my own immune system and medication and nearly killed me, today decades later the damage to my lungs (and kidneys) is still there.

Covid-19 has no treatment our immune system is not used to this type of virus and there is no actual medication to treat it.

Wake up this is not a conspiracy, not a cold, flu, etc... It is a new disease that kills, causes long term damage and we have no idea how much damage at this point.

We are going to see more of this as things like the thawing of the permafrost in places like Siberia and North America reveal and release long forgotten viruses, bacteria and spores.

So drop the conspiracy of man made, government control, etc.. and the it's just the flu junk.

Nature can and is just as capable of causing this and far worse all on its own.

You want to risk getting what I now live with fine just don't raise the risk for others and follow safety guidelines.

In my earlier 20s I like many thought I was invincible, healthy and strong got proven wrong by a little thing that could in theory be easily treated, do you want to take the risk with a new little thing that cannot be easily treated?

Think long and hard and try using real facts and logic.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

That’s already known for about half a year or more, but nobody listens. The next thing will be, that herd immunity is not in reach anymore and therefore no primary goal anymore. And after that , they will have to admit, that those vaccinations are of not so much use at all and have to be applied every half year and so on and on.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

@Sven Asai

The vaccine has been pointed out by most experts to be something that will probably be needed yearly like the flu vaccine only a few outliers claimed live long or multiple years protection, so-called natural heerd immunity has been a fantasy by certain non specialist and the right wanting to get their money flow back disregarding the safety of the people they see as lower and expendable.

Heerd immunity is attainable in some form through vaccination, in the same way many other diseases are today but like those other diseases either regular vaccinations, booster shots or tweeked versions to adapt to new variants will be needed.

It is called science, research, facts and expertise.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

If a country is running thousands of tests and getting over 10% of positive results as happens all over the world (including Japan)

I dont know exactly what is being discussed (seems some related comments have been deleted) but this is not the same as the estimated prevalence in the population that was used on the prior explanation

1 ( +1 / -0 )

thepersoniam....

Well, if 50 people have been dying a day since Dec 3 then that would be about 3,000 people in the two months since then. No big surprise there.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I dont know exactly what is being discussed (seems some related comments have been deleted)

It was the mistaken notion that PCR test will fabricate endless amounts of false positives if done at higher number of cycles. False positives remain the exception in any system run with a minimum of competency and the number of cycles is only one of the many different kind of parameters that can be used to avoid systematic false positivies.

but this is not the same as the estimated prevalence in the population that was used on the prior explanation

The important part is the prevalence in the samples tested, because not all the population will have the same probability of being tested, but for the sake of the example it makes no difference.

In the hypothetical explanation there were two prevalence values used.

Having a 10% of prevalence, testing would give a rate of true positives/false positives of 100:1 ,

having a 1% of prevalence would increase the rate to a 10:1,

The actual number of false positive results would remain the same (at 1 out of every 1000 tests), so this consideration becomes more important the less actual cases you have and more tests you run (so in COVID-19 free New Zealand running 10,000 tests would end up "detecting" 10 cases, none of them real). But in the vast majority of the world (including Japan) the amount of false positives is a tiny fraction of the reported numbers.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Meanwhile, some unnamed doctor saw an unnamed youngster who tested negative for COVID but then for some reason hated going to school.

Close Japan now! Cancel the Olympics!

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The important part is the prevalence in the samples tested, because not all the population will have the same probability of being tested,

This is definitely true in Japan but in countries where mass testing is done and anybody can be tested can't we say that everyone has more or less the same probability?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This is a worrisome warning one would least want to know or expect.

How long will the virus, its new strains and those yet to emerge be lingering on?

5 years? 5 decades?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It was the mistaken notion that PCR test will fabricate endless amounts of false positives if done at higher number of cycles. 

Ah clear thanks

0 ( +2 / -2 )

this gov doing nothing.

literally nothing.

i see no efforts to increase citizens immunity by providing of free vitamin D or accepting of invermectin,which costs fragment of anticovid vaccines.

i see no cash handouts for these who are hardly affected.

i see no free face masks supplying for own citizens.

all i see is that gov is wasting time and taxpayers money for Tokyo olympics plan,,Mori,publish numbers of new covid cases and ...doing nothing

sad and pathetic same time.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

i see no efforts to increase citizens immunity by providing of free vitamin D or accepting of invermectin,which costs fragment of anticovid vaccines.

Cost less, but don’t work. Those peddling unproven quack theories should be ashamed of themselves.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Admittedly I havent read a lot about the subject but i havent come across anything that says specificity of pcr test changes when number of cycles change. They usually do specify just one number i think, not a range

2 ( +2 / -0 )

i see no efforts to increase citizens immunity by providing of free vitamin D or accepting of invermectin,which costs fragment of anticovid vaccines.

All that is In the same drawer in the filing cabinet with the moon landing was fake, flat earth and all the rest of the nonsense.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

She sought the advice of an otolaryngologist who told her, "Nothing can be done." Another doctor prescribed her traditional "kampo" herbal medicine, but her condition did not improve.

Sadly, this sums up a lot of doctors here.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

or accepting of invermectin,which costs fragment of anticovid vaccines.

Sadly as usual people fail to understandI Ivermectin, if it does work as a preventative it only does so if one is continuously taking it, once the medicine is no longer in one's system there is no more protection and again that is if it works.

So to say it costs a fraction of a vaccine that provides at least a few months if not longer is false as daily doses for months at a time would in the end be far more costly and the effects on ones body for such a prolonged use is not known and I would guess not a good idea.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Sadly, this sums up a lot of doctors here

No it doesn't. I have met some totally incompetent doctors here as well as in my home country, the USA and EU, far fewer than competent ones in all these places.

As for kampo, prescribed Kampo are no different than other medications here in Japan, they are tested in the same way and approved if not they are not covered by the National healthcare system.

They are effective but then to be far easier on the system and do take longer to have an effect.

The fact this woman's doctor did not take her symptoms seriously only tells us this was not a good doctor and not that the whole Japanese medical profession is like that.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The fact this woman's doctor did not take her symptoms seriously only tells us this was not a good doctor and not that the whole Japanese medical profession is like that.

Unfortunately it may just be that there is nothing realistic that can be done for now. The evidence points to infection and destruction of some of the cells that are involved in the sense of smell, if the support cells are the only ones destroyed then the patient recovers relatively quickly, but if the neurons are involved the recovery may be extremely slow or none at all. The otolaryngologist can only check if not other reason is present, but if nothing is found the most he could do is to tell her to wait to see if she can recover on her own or until more is understood later about this problem in COVID-19.

For this kind of problems what makes a good doctor from a bad one is not solving the problem (because there is little to do) but explaining the situation to the patient until she understand why nothing can be done, at least for now.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Koichi Hirahata, head of the clinic, suspects that a "cytokine storm," a severe autoimmune response in which a patient's immune system attacks healthy organs, might be one of the causes of the long-term aftereffects.

He also suspects that women are more likely to suffer the aftereffects than men as they report autoimmune diseases more often.

Autoimmune is the major issue here, but is unfortunately barely addressed. People should be improving their diet (e.g., cutting carbs and processed foods) and ensuring their vitamin D content is high, among other things.

It's not the virus that is causing the damage, it's the immune system.

Those who are more likely to have problems from the infection are also those who are more likely to have serious adverse effects from vaccinations. So everyone should above all, improve their overall health.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

I have some symptoms of long covid after having influenza last year. I want to have a test, but I have to travel 3 prefectures and pay ¥38000 for a PCP test.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

It's not the virus that is causing the damage, it's the immune system.

The virus is the one that causes the disfunction of the immune system, anybody is at risk of it, including perfectly healthy people of young age. This is like saying that HIV is not the one causing problems in AIDS but the lack of a healthy immunity.

The probability to have a serious adverse effect from vaccination is extremely low in comparison to the risk from the natural infection so it still remains the best protection for anybody for whom it is indicated. Being immunized is one of the most productive ways to improve their health against the COVID-19 infection.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Autoimmune is the major issue here, but is unfortunately barely addressed. People should be improving their diet (e.g., cutting carbs and processed foods) and ensuring their vitamin D content is high, among other things.

Thanks doctor I guess all those with

Addison disease, Celiac disease, Dermatomyositis, Graves disease, Multiple sclerosis, which include myself, family members and friends are grateful to know that we can follow this advice to no longer have these diseases.

It's not the virus that is causing the damage, it's the immune system.

Awaiting the publication of your research on this seeing other research is showing otherwise.

Those who are more likely to have problems from the infection are also those who are more likely to have serious adverse effects from vaccinations.

Again awaiting your research publications on this seeing no other study has shown this.

Problem today is everyone with an internet connection thinks they are now more knowledgeable than the doctors and experts that spend their lives studying these things.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@Goodlucktoyou

I am not sure how my daughter's employer got these but they gave her a bunch of home kits for the family to use if needed.

As far as I know they are available from reputable labs at a cost between ¥9,800 and ¥20,000 by private individuals.

Seeing her employer is the one providing them her test is free if needed the rest of the family is ¥2,000 each.

The problem is the results take 7 to 10 days including mail delivery time.

Again it will need to do some checking use only well established labs the kits we have are from a large Japanese pharmaceutical company.

Good luck

1 ( +3 / -2 )

It's not the virus that is causing the damage, it's the immune system.

Awaiting the publication of your research on this seeing other research is showing otherwise.

I guess you missed all the information describing how the infection process occurs within the first 10 days or so. Many of the complications mentioned above show up later, when the virus is no longer active (no longer replicating).

Those who are more likely to have problems from the infection are also those who are more likely to have serious adverse effects from vaccinations.

Again awaiting your research publications on this seeing no other study has shown this.

I guess you also missed all the warnings for people with allergy and autoimmune issues regarding vaccinations.

I'm glad I have been able you bring this to your attention ; )

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

She sought the advice of an otolaryngologist who told her, "Nothing can be done."

That's unfortunate. Maybe she should look for another otolaryngologist.

I know some people are not fond of Didier Raoult, but he runs a large impressive research/treatment center that employs over 800 and they have treated several thousands. According to them, the loss of sense of smell usually lasts 2-3 weeks, but if it doesn't there are ways to retrain your senses.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

I guess you missed all the information describing how the infection process occurs within the first 10 days or so. Many of the complications mentioned above show up later, when the virus is no longer active (no longer replicating).

That do not contradict at all that the etiologic agent is the virus, its replication is the one stimulating the immune system, the nonstructural proteins making a mess of the normal signaling that keeps it in control and not pathogenic, so it reacts in an anomalous way that would not have happened without the infection in the first place.

This is an example of double standards, you don't hesitate to blame vaccines for any and all effects that may appear years after vaccination, long after there is nothing remaining of the vaccine in the body. But when an anomalous immune reaction demonstrated as dependent on the antigenic stimulus of the virus happens after only 10 days then suddenly the virus has nothing to do with it.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

I know some people are not fond of Didier Raoult, but he runs a large impressive research/treatment center that employs over 800 and they have treated several thousands. According to them, the loss of sense of smell usually lasts 2-3 weeks, but if it doesn't there are ways to retrain your senses.

Hopefully he will not do again unethical human experimentation to force his theories on unsuspecting patients, his last pieces of research have been so problematic that official enquiries on his antiscientific behavior were warranted. I would recommend specialists that are not tainted by such malpractices.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Problem today is everyone with an internet connection thinks they are now more knowledgeable than the doctors and experts that spend their lives studying these things.

Yeah, because with an internet connection we have access to many doctors that are more knowledgeable about certain topics than the doctor at the local clinic. Especially in Japan where doctors might not be as up to date with the international literature....

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Yeah, because with an internet connection we have access to many doctors that are more knowledgeable about certain topics than the doctor at the local clinic. Especially in Japan where doctors might not be as up to date with the international literature....

Having access to doctors is very different from being knowledgeable, specially if you misunderstand or misrepresent what they say (or choose ethically challenged people to follow).

4 ( +8 / -4 )

The good news is that people are waking up to this nonsense

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Doctors continue the use of "we believe, we suspect, ...can cause..." too many inconsistencies and now they are asking the government to step in?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Didier Raoult,

Oh no not that one again.

I suggest you have someone that can read French do a few searches for you, this guy is off his rocker and what is available in French is far more than in English because most of the stuff available in English was cherry picked to promote his ideas, the real facts are rarely translated from French, the guy is a serious danger, and yes I have read a lot on him in French which is my first language.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

complications mentioned above show up later, when the virus is no longer active (no longer replicating).

You do understand how "damaged" works, Right

Example I no longer have microplasma pneumonia but my lungs and kidneys are Damaged from having it now a few decades later.

Just because the virus is no longer replicating or present does not mean it did not cause long term or permanent damage.

Why does something so simple need to be explained?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Doctors continue the use of "we believe, we suspect, ...can cause..." too many inconsistencies 

Yes because that is how actual science works, they see something then they make an observation of what is going on then they do a longer study to confirm or not.

If is wasn't for the instant gratification that today's society seems to need none of this would even be in question.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Here's a personal account of my brother's friend who had lasting aftereffects of the CV-19. This guy was 23 when he got infected and was tested clear from it after in about a month but he constantly complained about being winded out just by climbing the stairs. I personally know the guy and he wasn't unfit nor was he an athlete but that condition stayed with him for several weeks after.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I never said there was no damage! The only point I was making is that it is generally not the virus itself that is directly damaging the tissue, it's the immune response. The immune response is over-reacting to viral remnants or other stuff when it does not need to because the virus is no longer replicating (no longer attacking).

If one has a healthy immune system that does not over react when the virus is no longer replicating, much (if not all) of the damage could be avoided. That is why they often treat this with corticosteroids.

Vitamin D helps prevent this over reaction. But shhh, don't tell anyone, we want people to be scared and begging for the vaccine.

This is an example of double standards, you don't hesitate to blame vaccines for any and all effects that may appear years after vaccination, long after there is nothing remaining of the vaccine in the body. But when an anomalous immune reaction demonstrated as dependent on the antigenic stimulus of the virus happens after only 10 days then suddenly the virus has nothing to do with it.

What!!! I said that those who are more likely to suffer complications from the infections are also those who are more likely to suffer serious adverse reactions to the vaccine. I have the same standard, you're the one with the double standard!

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

I never said there was no damage! The only point I was making is that it is generally not the virus itself that is directly damaging the tissue, it's the immune response. The immune response is over-reacting to viral remnants or other stuff when it does not need to because the virus is no longer replicating (no longer attacking).

This has no importance, you are just explaining how the infection produces the damage, not a different thing that would happen independently of it.

f one has a healthy immune system that does not over react when the virus is no longer replicating, much (if not all) of the damage could be avoided. That is why they often treat this with corticosteroids.

No, that is not dependen on a healthy immune response, people without any kind of problem do develop immunopatologies because of the virus, what you are describing is the variability of reactions from the infection, people will have different reactions even if their immune systems and infecting viruses are the same.

What!!! I said that those who are more likely to suffer complications from the infections are also those who are more likely to suffer serious adverse reactions to the vaccine. I have the same standard, you're the one with the double standard!

No, that is completely unrelated, look at the text quoted from you. I can copy paste it again without problems

"I guess you missed all the information describing how the infection process occurs within the first 10 days or so. Many of the complications mentioned above show up later, when the virus is no longer active (no longer replicating)."

You are saying that since the virus is only present for 10 days the immune damage is not a consequence of the virus which is incorrect, there is no meaning in trying to deflect if your own text is there for anybody to see. The double standards are perfectly obvious.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Could someone please stop the vitamin D junk science peddler.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Cases going down. People are starting to find hope again. Not good. What can we do, what can we do.....

I know! Lets panic them with the usual.

Should it be "Doctors suggest"? nahhh..

Another "Doctor's believe"? nahhhhhh....

"Doctors worry"? nahhhh..

Lets go with the tried and true "Doctors WARN" Much more ominous!

Click!

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Palestinians have NOT been vaccinated. Israel has vaccinated the most citizens out af any country, by far.

Cases and deaths in Palestine have fallen 70% since Dec 19th, when Israel began its vaccination program.

Cases in Israel have tripled, deaths have quadrupled.

The vaccine may still yet work, but theres no evidence yet that it will. Right now the BEST possible scenario is the vaccine takes much longer to work than the clinical trials suggested.

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