tokyo 2020 olympics

Will Japanese Olympians be vaccinated ahead of the public?

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By STEPHEN WADE

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Of course they will. The real question is: Will they he vaccinated before the Olympics?

9 ( +15 / -6 )

Will Japanese Olympians be vaccinated ahead of the public?

It seems everyone else in the world will be vaccinated ahead of the Japanese public so yeah, probably.

29 ( +32 / -3 )

This question is silly. The Japanese Governments roll out of the vaccine is slow as stated in the article, s why ask this question as the answer is an obvious yes.

"Will Japanese Olympians be vaccinated ahead of the public?"

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Local news reports say he (Mr. Bach) will be in Hiroshima to meet the torch relay on May 17 or 18.

Q. If Tokyo and Osaka (and elsewhere) have another State of Emergency, will Japan continue to allow foreigners "with special exceptional circumstances" to enter the country during the SOE, including Mr Bach, next May?

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Athletes are no one special. They are just that..an athlete. If the Tokyo Gov't has these shots ready at a moments notice, this means they are hoarding the shots, and not giving then to the genreral population...the J-Gov't is such an embarrasement to it self. They continue to look like a bunch of deragned old folks more and more.

20 ( +24 / -4 )

A foregone conclusion, but don't think for once that it will be publicized like the torch relay. Hashimoto and Marukawa will also be at the front of the line.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Get the "vaccine". Or I'll call it vaccide! Get it if you must. But you're gonna regret it!

-17 ( +3 / -20 )

Of bigger concern is which vaccine. The Pfizer vaccine has gone from "95% effective for over 2 years and 100% against severe infection" to "about 90% effective for 6~12 months". All mention of being 100% effective against severe infection has been dropped. It's well known some people suffer harsh side effects. It's well know some healthy young people in USA fell sick immediately after the second shot and passed away. The regime authorities have said the vaccine wasn't the cause but have refused to say what the cause was.

Sputnik V has gone from a touch under 92% effective to a touch under 98% effective. Effective for about 2 years has remained but the makers say it's looking like they may have to revise that up to 3 years. 100% effective against severe infection has remained.

So the Japanese government buys the former..... I worry about the future of Japan. Revolution is needed. The regime seems to follow the principle of America First. Specially weird given the severely diminished importance of the USA market for Japanese goods compared to that of China.

-12 ( +10 / -22 )

Of course ‘they’ will. Remember Seiko Hashimoto’s quote: “At any cost.”

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Without widespread vaccination, the olympics are a complete waste of resources and an embarrassment.

There is no excuse for Japan to be this far behind the rest of the world.

Suga should step down.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

Suga government and ruling party LDP of Japan are inhumane Olympic Supremacists.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

Woeful LDP!!

11 ( +14 / -3 )

NHK 7 pm news was "boasting" about Japan's vaccine progress last night; yesterday, in one day, a grand TOTAL of about 13,200 over 65s were vaccinated NATIONWIDE! With 37 million elderly people waiting, a rate of 13,200 a day will require 2803 days or 7.7 years to get one shot!

In the 6 or so weeks since vaccination of the 4.7 million healthcare workers started, 1.5 million have had 1 shot and 70,000 have had two. Again PATHETIC.

What can we learn from these figures? The answer is there is clearly almost no available vaccine in Japan and that is partly why Suga was on his recent begging mission to Biden and Pfizer. Although the latter has now promised to have shipped enough vaccine to Japan by September to vaccinate all 125 million here, that is a LOT different from having that vaccine in arms. This vaccination program is going well into 2022 EVEN IF Pfizer keeps its end of the deal. Remember, Abe told us he had secured enough vaccine for 60 million people before the Olympics and that has still not arrived yet.

The people of Japan are not being told these facts (probably due to IOC/government fears of having to cancel the Olympics since almost nobody here will have been vaccinated). At the next election voters need to kick the LDP out of office for this disgraceful lack of transparency and ineptitude.

15 ( +19 / -4 )

If they intend to vaccinate the athletes they need to do it immediately to provide adequate time to recover from the side effects.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Although the latter has now promised to have shipped enough vaccine to Japan by September to vaccinate all 125 million here,

Pfizer also promised an additional 100 million to the EU yesterday. Almost as if vaccines grow on trees...

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Spoiler here.

Vaccines are not 100% effective against new variants. Short term tested vaccines have side effects not tested in the realm of normal vaccine testing. Serious sportspersons will not put big pharma monkey DNA into their bodies, so if forced, they will suffer discrimination. Being vaccinated does not stop a contact infected, vaccinated person from hosting the virus, (or new vaccine resistant variants) and spreading it via droplet, aerosol or surface residual transmission.

When I cook food I use many different ingredients to make an enjoyable taste, just like the Olympics we use many different nations to make an enjoyable experience. But if I cook and use just one rotten ingredient, I will be running to the toilet every 5 minutes.

-13 ( +6 / -19 )

Spoiler here.

I don't see any spoilers here, only the everyday anti-vaxxer fear-mongering.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

Tokyo organizers have repeatedly said the Olympics will be safe and secure. Last week the British Medical Journal challenged this. Who is responsible if they are not?

IOC vice president John Coates, in an interview published online Sunday in the Japanese magazine Number, responded to the question.

Coates said, quoting the magazine: "The responsibility for the response to COVID-19 during, before and after the games lies with the Japanese government, and to a lesser extent with the Tokyo city government. Under an agreement with the government, the Tokyo government and Tokyo organizers, the IOC is doing its best to keep to a minimum the spread of infections, as well as the contact between the Japanese public (and the athletes). The IOC is responsible for that aspect.”

IMPORTANT, see above do note the split in responsibility, IOC only the athletes, everyone else JAPAN!! The IOC is really showing its nasty side I hope the world NEVER forgets!!

Speaking of never forgetting:

Local news reports say he will be in Hiroshima to meet the torch relay on May 17 or 18. He is expected to place flowers at the Peace Memorial Park in memory of the victims of the Aug 6, 1945, atomic bombing of the city. The A-Bomb Dome could also be a backdrop for Bach.

I wonder if he will ponder some thought for all those that have caught COVID & those that WILL if the games go on!! Or is he praying to get that payment from NBC!!

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Of course the athletes should be vaccinated.

But what about all the non-athletes that make the Olympics run smoothly. The time keepers, judges, referees, umpires, officials, volunteers etc etc.

These people will arguably have more sustained contact with other people throughout the days and weeks the Olympics are on.

What about them?

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Tokyo organizers have repeatedly said the Olympics will be safe and secure. Last week the British Medical Journal challenged this. Who is responsible if they are not?

It's worth noting that three of the four authors of this report in the BMJ are Japanese, the other is American:

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n962

16 ( +16 / -0 )

Suga government and ruling party LDP of Japan are inhumane Olympic Supremacists.

Olympic Supremacy??....

interesting concept.

Olympics used to be a celebration of diversity... How did it become an near-to-criminal act against humanity?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

https://www.dw.com/en/is-sputnik-v-vaccine-safe/a-57219314

it's hard to precisely determine the efficacy of Sputnik V. It was approved for use in Russia last August before the state safety review had been completed. Eight months after the government's fast-track approval, there is still no reliable data on the vaccine. Russia has not yet made crucial primary data available to an independent drug testing authority.

When was the last time Russia or China told the truth about anything that could be embarrassing?

Where's the data?

I'm hopeful that Sputnik V is highly effective against all of the strains, but until the actual test data is provided and peer reviewed - internationally - I won't believe it. Exceptional claims require exceptional proof. That applies to every vaccine regardless of where it was manufactured, tested, and deployed.

As for Japanese athletes being vaccinated - sooner is better. It takes 6 weeks (ballpark number) from the first dose until full effectivity is reached with the most popular vaccines. Japan should use that to plan and build in 2-3 days for harsh symptoms after the 2nd shot. I'll personally know more in ... er ... 2-3 days.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

The Olympics will involve about 150,000 foreign people arriving to take part in the games. 11,000 athletes and their supporting staff. Will foreign media be allowed?

All those people should be fully vaccinated before leaving their countries. They should also be tested before a flight anf quarantined for 10 days on arrival. Tested again after five days.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Sure hope so.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Will Japanese Olympians be vaccinated ahead of the public?

I can’t see any possible reason to expect otherwise.

Since Abe shamefully used the survivors of 3/11 as emotional blackmail to win this corrupt bid in the first place (remember how it was going to be an “economical” Olympics because we already had the infrastructure?) the Japanese government has proven at every single opportunity that they value this gravy train far beyond the well-being of the Japanese citizens.

 

If vaccinating athletes will give them any extra chance to escape cancelling this boondoggle, they’ll do it immediately – and who would be surprised? This is their only priority. That’s why we’ve had no money for pensions increases for decades, but enough to make this heist the most expensive Olympics in history.

 

Also, let’s clear up this little bit of sophistry:

 

Ticket sales are worth about $800 million to local organizers. Any shortfall will have to be made up by Japanese government entities.

 

Wrong. Any shortfall (and there will be plenty) will have to be made up by the taxpayer. Get ready for this. There will be no investment in public services for a generation after the IOC vampires have sucked this country dry. The LDP will suddenly rediscover a need for fiscal prudence that day after the Five-Ring Circus leaves town.

 

Our grandchildren yet unborn will be paying for this folly. It’s an utter disgrace.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

For PRis, right ?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

For Paris, I mean.

according to the contract between the IOC and the LOC the IOC is never responsible, only the LOC, Tokyo and the Japanese federal government which has to guarantee the contract to IOC.

the IOC is only responsible to deliver the rights of organising. Japanese government also needs to agree that the IOC does not pay any taxes.( ticketing is an LOC concern) on any revenue. ( IOC’s revenue is the money from broadcasters and international sponsors mainly) LOC’s revenue is local sponsor money and ticketing.

So Mr Coates is correct. The IOC can not be held responsible for any medical or health problems around the games.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

These people will arguably have more sustained contact with other people throughout the days and weeks the Olympics are on. 

What about them?

Run a silly touch around all prefectures and reach nationwide herd immunity.

according to the contract between the IOC and the LOC the IOC is never responsible, only the LOC, Tokyo and the Japanese federal government which has to guarantee the contract to IOC.

Same as drug companies immunity to being sued for side effects and deaths of their highly profitable products.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

'm hopeful that Sputnik V is highly effective against all of the strains, but until the actual test data is provided and peer reviewed - internationally - I won't believe it.

The data has been released in a peer-reviewed British scientific journal. The efficacy and safety has been empirically proven. Unlike Pfizer/Big Pharma scammers, they erred on the side of caution when releasing the results. But now with several million people vaccinated and several hundred thousand new infections in people not vaccinated, they say it's better than originally thought. The proof of that will be published in a few weeks.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Robert HancockToday  08:23 am JST

NHK 7 pm news was "boasting" about Japan's vaccine progress last night; yesterday, in one day, a grand TOTAL of about 13,200 over 65s were vaccinated NATIONWIDE!

I also watched and was amazed at the matter-of-fact nature of the presenting as if, "We done good".

And local NHK in my town also did a little special on a vaccination practice - a "dry run" - where participants presented themselves to officials with the right documents and were then ushered to a doctor who proceeded to simulate giving an injection with a pencil. Authorities said this was necessary so "real" vaccinations can run smoothly.

I want to laugh - but it's far too serious for that.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Unfortunately is the only option. Athletes are going to be in contact with a lot of people, from other competitors to local volunteers, and they are at an increased risk of complications because of well known immunological problems for professional athletes at the time of international competitions. This of course means that this completely unnecessary event is going to take doses that should have been delivered first to people that are vulnerable all the time.

Of bigger concern is which vaccine. The Pfizer vaccine has gone from "95% effective for over 2 years and 100% against severe infection" to "about 90% effective for 6~12 months". All mention of being 100% effective against severe infection has been dropped.

Since the declarations were about the results on the trials those are still valid. Nobody expects ever 100% of efficacy in anything medical, but getting a 100% protection during trials is still possible. The whole point is of course that all vaccines are still much safer than the infection.

Run a silly touch around all prefectures and reach nationwide herd immunity.

Now how about a solution that don't swamp health services and produce countless preventable deaths?

Same as drug companies immunity to being sued for side effects and deaths of their highly profitable products.

Companies still have huge lots of other kinds of liabilities and responsibilities to respond, or they can do as most did and simply avoid the risk of investing billions while still making much more profits with the consumables and drugs that are used by unvaccinated people that are hospitalized.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

NHK 7 pm news was "boasting" about Japan's vaccine progress last night; yesterday, in one day, a grand TOTAL of about 13,200 over 65s were vaccinated NATIONWIDE!

Steady on.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

the IOC is doing its best to keep to a minimum the spread of infections, as well as the contact between the Japanese public (and the athletes). The IOC is responsible for that aspect.”

Present continuous.

Who wrote this nonsense?

Wasn't aware the athletes are already in Japan.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Robert Hancock:

At the next election voters need to kick the LDP out of office for this disgraceful lack of transparency and ineptitude.

I know EXACTLY what's going to happen in the next election. And it will explain why Japan goes round in circles, never learning anything, and never growing or developing.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Looks like most of the planet will be inoculated before residents of Japan are...

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Since the declarations were about the results on the trials those are still valid. Nobody expects ever 100% of efficacy in anything medical, but getting a 100% protection during trials is still possible. The whole point is of course that all vaccines are still much safer than the infection.

So with Sputnik V, they erred on the side of caution. Big Pharma did the opposite. The difference between 95% effective and "about" 90% effective could be quite important. I suspect they are going to scale it down to "about" 80% effective for "about" 6 months soon. Big Pharma is once again having a laugh at the expense of the general population.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Like other Olympics promoters in the Japanese government, Seiko Hashimoto is living in a little bubble apart from reality. Remember, she is the one who said that "your smile will make the Olympics successful!" Will "warm-hearted" Japanese smiles make the viruses go away?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

So with Sputnik V, they erred on the side of caution. Big Pharma did the opposite. 

What err? both reported what they got in their trials, being scientifically honest means reporting what you observed. If you think they reported what they wanted completely independent from the results they got you are completely mistaken. Sputnik had a worse trial, that is it. It may be because of variants, it may be because it more closely reflected the real situation, that is for later evidence to make clear, but it is not like they said "lets spike these results with a few sick people to make them more believable".

I know that people that tend to do that on a regular basis may think this is how everything is done everywhere and that companies running international trials with lots of observers could do something like this, but realistically speaking its impossible.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

The real question that needs answering is;

"Why are all the people attending the Olympics, along with the rest of the population of Japan, not already scheduled to be vaccinated before the start?".

The answer is incompetence.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Will "warm-hearted" Japanese smiles make the viruses go away?

Not wearing a mask they won't.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It's probably too late now, but Suga and Abe and all the rest of the politicians who have influence over the vaccination distribution should have been LAST in line to be vaccinated.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

my question is why that hurry?

there will be no olympics in Tokyo this year so there no problem if vaccination will be late...

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Why would they need vaccinations??? The games will be held safely in state-of-the-art safe facilities, with policies, rule books faxed daily. (Sic.)

we should start a go fund me to cover the fees of Tokyo 2020 IOC exit clause.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

What err? both reported what they got in their trials, being scientifically honest means reporting what you observed. If you think they reported what they wanted completely independent from the results they got you are completely mistaken.

Vaccines typically take a a few years to be approved. This was an emergency situation. They only had limited data to publish. Obviously both erred. Because Sputnik V has gone from almost 92% effective to almost 98% effective as more data has streamed in. The Pfizer vaccine has gone from 95% effective to "about" 90% effective.

They also erred on the length of protection. Sputnik V has remained effective for 2 years but they are confident of extending that to 2.5 or 3 years. Prizer has gone from at least 2 years to 6~12 months.

Pfizer also erred on being 100% effective against severe infection. Sputnik V has remained 100% effective against severe infection.

Is that enough "erring" for you?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

It will be very unpopular to push young, healthy athletes to the front of the vaccination line when almost no one else in Japan is vaccinated.

Understatement of the year.

Kono has said he is ready to deliver vaccines if Hashimoto and the government think they're needed.

If you've got them, then get them delivered immediately to the municipalities who are still waiting to vaccinate their health workers and elderly.

Young, fit folk to the end of the line, please.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

American, 45 years old here. Fully vaccinated 20 days ago. Vaccinations are open to everyone now. I got in early because local pharmacy would not let any 10 minute appointment go to waste. Right place right time.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The answer is obvious.

unfortunately, several Japanese Olympic athletes will be testing positive before their Olympic matches

And will be disqualified

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Vaccines typically take a a few years to be approved. This was an emergency situation. They only had limited data to publish. Obviously both erred. Because Sputnik V has gone from almost 92% effective to almost 98% effective as more data has streamed in. The Pfizer vaccine has gone from 95% effective to "about" 90% effective.

Completely misleading, they did not err, clinical trials are not meant to be absolutely perfect in the determination of the benefits and risk, they are only meant to show if the vaccine is or not much safer than the infection, so it can be used in the population. Nobody erred, they got the results they got, and if you want to compare efficacy you need to do it at the same epidemiological points, Pfizer has reports from millions of doses in many countries, Sputnik not yet, for all we know its numbers will still change, safety concerns can appear, etc. If you think that the current situation will inevitably continue as it is without change you are the one that is erring. Specially when Sputnik has not made fully available the data it used for the efficacy and safety determination. For good or for bad the confirmation will come after other countries make available their data after using it.

Vaccines take years to be approved because they need to be an improvement over the already existing preventive vaccines or treatment and they have to compete with those already approved health measures to get people for the trials. This is obviously not the case with a new disease that have no such previous vaccine to surpass nor a wide spread option to make it difficult to recruit volunteers.

Length of protection is not something the developers can predict, if the developers say anything about it it has to be always as a possibility, because if they are guaranteeing protection for any amount of time above what they have tested it is scientifically invalid and a completely unethical thing to do. Sputnik has NOT remainded effective for 2 years, only said so, and without actual data to prove it. The same is for the Pfizer vaccine, nobody has the data to prove it will be ineffective at 6-12 months. You need to understand the difference between people giving predictions based on their interests and people using actual data to prove them.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

They also erred on the length of protection. Sputnik V has remained effective for 2 years but they are confident of extending that to 2.5 or 3 years. Prizer has gone from at least 2 years to 6~12 months.

@ Paul

Just wanted to know how it's remained effective for two years when it was only developed 11 months ago.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Just wanted to know how it's remained effective for two years when it was only developed 11 months ago.

I never stated it's "remained" effective for 2 years. Obviously! I believe the vaccine makers are estimating at least 2 years due to the high level of antibodies the first recipients of the vaccines still have in their blood.

Completely misleading, they did not err, clinical trials are not meant to be absolutely perfect

Fine. Call it an educated guess which proved to be wrong if you like. Pfizer has been increasing the price as it has been walking back earlier statements on the effectiveness of the vaccine. I'd bet they end up walking back these latest "educated guesses" as well. "Around" 90% will go to low 80s. 6~12 months will go to 6~9 months. A yearly booster will go to biannual booster. But not much chance of the criminals or the criminal US regime walking back the prices.

I just want the Japanese government to give us a choice. Not interested in forcing anyone to take Sputnik V who doesn't want to. Because I sure as hell don't want the Pfizer vaccine but I do want to be able to travel and live more like 1.5 years ago.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

I hope so!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It does not look good at all for the Olympics being held this year.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Fine. Call it an educated guess which proved to be wrong if you like.

Again no, the purpose is not to have an educated guess, it is to check the safety and efficacy on the volunteer population, which is not intended to be absolutely representative of the whole population (as anybody would know the moment you see there are exclusion parameters). The information to be gained from the trials may indicate very roughly what to expect in the whole population, but the main purpose is just to see if the intervention is or not safe enough to use it for everybody. There is no mistake, there is no contradiction, that is only a product of you not understanding the purpose of clinical trials.

Every company is free to do as they want, if they want to lose market increasing the price is their own problem, and efficacy and safety data are bound to change the more people they vaccinate and the more information about them becomes open. Sputnik is only beginning this process, the only information available about it is the digested version the developed choose to make available, not third party data yet to actually corroborate it (nor raw data for other to validate the analysis).

I just want the Japanese government to give us a choice.

Then convince Russia first to do proper testing before releasing something to the public (making the whole process suspicious and invalid scientifically and ethically) AND to apply for approval in Japan, the government has no fault in not using something that has not even applied for use in the country, maybe because Russia is not making available the raw data necessary for the Japanese authorities to do their own analysis of the safety and efficacy, maybe because Russia is playing political games, who knows? the important part is that the ball is in their field.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@drlucifer

Japanese athletes are in Japan.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@A Johnson

So you're out and about, are you? Able to walk into stores, watch a movie, travel by plane without a mask now? How has the "vaccination" changed your life?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The TOC and IOCare saying they’ll keep contacts “between the athletes and the public to a minimum”, but I don’t see how the spread of the virus would be stopped or hindered when the STAFF of the games have no protection what so ever. The staff, that’s taking care of everything behind the scenes and making it all possible in the first place; tech staff, media staff, hospitality staff, etc., are required to work nearly around the clock during the games, to closely interact with the athletes, and then they go home to sleep for a few hours, to their families, using public transport. When the only “protection” they get from the games is a paper mask and a hand sanitizer, but no vaccine, how exactly is the spread of the virus stopped, between the athletes, the staff, the public?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Then convince Russia first to do proper testing before releasing something to the public (making the whole process suspicious and invalid scientifically and ethically)

They only didn't do proper testing in the grubby little minds of Big Pharma shareholder and a few shills who take the word of the US regime and corporate media far too readily. In the world of empirical science, they did proper testing and erred on the same of caution when publishing the spectacular results.

Now they are far beyond testing. Tens of millions of doses administered in 60+ countries on every continent except Australasia. The results of continued monitoring have gone the opposite way of Pfizers 'best guess'. That is to say, Pfizer's "best guess" has decreased the efficacy of that vaccine while increasing the price.

Every company is free to do as they want, if they want to lose market increasing the price is their own problem

Really? Given the Pfizer vaccine is the only one approved for use in Japan? This is called a monopoly. No doubt the US regime is behind it. I guess one last scam on the population of Japan. The sooner Japan's foreign policy reflects the present economic realities, the better. That means telling the US regime to * and take its poor vaccines with it.

and efficacy and safety data are bound to change the more people they vaccinate and the more information about them becomes open.

Really? Thanks for the tip! Who would imagine Pfizer's "best guess" erred on the side of effectiveness and now they are walking back those earlier "best guesses". I mean, what did I tell you specifically in 3 or messages just today?

In which scientific journal did Pfizer publish it's initial results and is there any word when they will publish the revised results? So far the CEO has just said "about" 90% effective rather than 95% effective and 6~12 months rather than at least 2 years. And it's not 100% effective in preventing severe illness and death from the disease.

Let me guess, in your little world, Sputnik V can publish results in peer reviewed international journals but that isn't proper testing. Prizer's CEO and No.1 shareholder can make a best guess and that is proper testing.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

They only didn't do proper testing in the grubby little minds of Big Pharma shareholder and a few shills who take the word of the US regime and corporate media far too readily.

False the scientific community in general is the one that defends the value of proper human trials as paramount, much higher in value than any single vaccine or drug that could be developed, and Russia choose to ignore this proper testing for no valid reason. Other companies could develop their own vaccines without compromising the human rights of the people as Russia did. You think only a few people think like this? How about you go and try to find any medical or scientific organization that defends skipping phase III trials as a valid way to do things?

 The results of continued monitoring have gone the opposite way of Pfizers 'best guess'. That is to say, Pfizer's "best guess" has decreased the efficacy of that vaccine while increasing the price.

One, again it is not a "best guess" that is still you misunderstanding the role of clinical trials, and second, how about a reference to prove this "opposite trend" with data from third parties? I mean, for you to categorically say this is true you must have access to the data, right?

Really? Given the Pfizer vaccine is the only one approved for use in Japan? This is called a monopoly. 

No it is not, Pfizer has absolutely no power to decide if other vaccines are or not approved in Japan, at all, the only thing it can decide is to apply or not. The same as Russia decided not to apply for approval.

Really? Thanks for the tip! Who would imagine Pfizer's "best guess" erred on the side of effectiveness and now they are walking back those earlier "best guesses". I mean, what did I tell you specifically in 3 or messages just today?

Mostly that you cant understand what clinical trials are and their purpose, mistakenly thinking they indicate exactly what is going to happen in the general population when in reality they are meant only to show if they have enough safety and efficacy to be used or not.

In which scientific journal did Pfizer publish it's initial results and is there any word when they will publish the revised results?

What revised results? the final results of the phase III were published long before Sputnik did, and even more importantly it was only after this was done and the results open for analysis that the vaccine was used in the general population, as it should be done ethically.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

Let me guess, in your little world, Sputnik V can publish results in peer reviewed international journals but that isn't proper testing.

No, because Russia have no access to a time machine, that means that if it were to being now to use the vaccine there would be little problem (since it has the results published, but not yet the raw data available for reviewers). The huge problem was when it began to inoculate people before the trial was even finished, much less the results analyzed and published.

Also, there is no data that can let anybody say that the vaccine is going to be effective for 6 months nor 2 years, that is again scientific malpractice and unethical, which again makes the scientific community in general consider the vaccine dubious.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I am strongly, strongly against the Olympics happening - bringing together people from around the world in the middle of a pandemic makes absolutely no sense in terms of human safety. That being said, putting aside all the debates around whether it is fair or appropriate to vaccinate young and healthy athletes ahead of people at greater risk from dying of the virus (which it is not), I am for vaccinating the Japanese athletes. One of the largest risks of these games is that an athlete picks up a new strain of the virus from another athlete (and let's be honest, a lot of sports are fairly high contact), takes it home to their families and it spread like wildfire.

Having the Olympics - dumb

Using all the tools available to prevent further transmission as a result of the Olympics - sensible

0 ( +1 / -1 )

All hail the new heroes, the Olympic athletes.

So will they be put ahead, not today, but, yes they will next week or the week after.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

So on the one hand the problem with Sputnik V was the haste in which it was approved.

The huge problem was when it began to inoculate people before the trial was even finished, much less the results analyzed and published.

And on the other, there are no such concerns with the Pfizer vaccine even though

the final results of the phase III were published long before Sputnik did

Makes sense, doesn't it?

How about you go and try to find any medical or scientific organization that defends skipping phase III trials as a valid way to do things?

Well, they didn't skip phase 3 trials. By now Phase 3 trails have been completed in several countries, not just Russia. Most notably that includes India. Which hasn't approved the Pfizer vaccine.

how about a reference to prove this "opposite trend" with data from third parties

Did you not see the news from a few days ago? Pretty sure they would have mentioned it in CNN and BBC (though I guess to try and embellish it).

The CEO of Pfizer came out and said it's 'about' 90% effective for 6~12 months. Furthermore, empirical evidence there had been many deaths from the disease in people who had been fully vaccinated. Therefore, the Pfizer CEO dropped any mention of "100% effective against severe infection". No mention of when the revised results would be published. Like they don't want the public to know........

The Sputnik V creators came out yesterday and said the revised figures demonstrate 97.6 efficacy. 100% effective against severe illness is still true. It looks likely it will offer protection for more than 2 years. They said the revised data would be published in a peer reviewed scientific publication in May.

Other companies could develop their own vaccines without compromising the human rights of the people as Russia did

Ohhhh, I get it now. The makers of the vaccine were so confident in it, they inoculated themselves and family members with it first. Big Pharma on the other hand tests it on poor students and unemployed workers but it was the Russians who "compromised human rights". This sounds like something you would hear on CNN or BBC. That is to say, fascicle in its stupidity.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

So on the one hand the problem with Sputnik V was the haste in which it was approved.

And on the other, there are no such concerns with the Pfizer vaccine even though

No, the problem with sputnik was skipping the phase III human trials before beginning to distribute the vaccine, which is unethical and considered sloppy, improper and sign of dubious methodology. Pfizer published their results, had it analyzed first by the authorities and then it was allowed to be used in the general population.

Well, they didn't skip phase 3 trials.

Yes they did at the time they began distributing the vaccine, which is the problem. This is the equivalent of a doctor giving treatment before diagnosing the patient, even if it turns up well at the end that still means something wrong, unethical and improper was done. Which is why Sputnik is thought to be done sloppily.

Did you not see the news from a few days ago? Pretty sure they would have mentioned it in CNN and BBC (though I guess to try and embellish it).

Nope, no data at all for either part, No third party data for Sputnik nor any data for Pfizer. And at the moment no raw data from the first trials for Sputnik either. That means that your supposed opposite trends are not based on anything that can be examined. Just what the developers (for both things) said. Which obviously is not proof.

Ohhhh, I get it now. The makers of the vaccine were so confident in it, they inoculated themselves and family members with it first.

No, because that would be another example of improper, invalid, medieval style science that indicate research is done without quality and automatically make the results suspicious. There are very strict protocols to be followed for human clinical trials that have to be followed to avoid infringing in human rights and favoring conflicts of interest in the participants. What you describe is enough to validly deny ethical approval for the trial, and is universally considered scientific malpractice.

https://www.oatext.com/human-subjects-in-clinical-trials-ethical-considerations-and-concerns.php

If a scientist cannot even follow the most basic principles of human research it is not unthinkable to suspect other unethical practices (like fabrication of results or falsification of data) have been done, which is why the scientific community is so interested in the raw data from the Sputnik vaccine.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@virusrex

With all the strict rules, checks and balances in clinical trials, how did AstraZeneca pass? I mean, Denmark just stopped using it altogether and other countries don't seem to be too happy with it either..

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Just curious, do the athletes have a say in wether or not they are injected?

They work for years to get to this point, and then must take an experimental shot,

for an illness that may or may not occur, with a very high recovery rate?

Everyone looks at the athletes as the "lucky" or "priviledged" ones.

What if they choose to decline it, does their Olympic dream end there?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Yes they did (skip phase 3 trials)

Ok. If you hold your breath long enough, I'm sure the vaccine makers will relent to your demands and say they didn't do or publish phase 3 results.

I'm not sure how they published the phase 3 results in a peer reviewed scientific journal when they didn't so phase 3 trials but lets just say they compromised the human rights of the journal publishers and be done with it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

See the New Zealand story today. Vaccines don’t stop people getting infected, (although likely they prevent serious disease). This means the frequent testing planned for the athletes, every few days will find cases, whether vaccinated not, because that is how asymptomatic cases get caught. Some Japanese athletes, despite Aso’s attributing of superior immunity power, never tested, because almost no one gets tested in Japan ( the real way to find no cases) , are likely to be discovered and vaccine is not going to prevent it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

We have been so disheartened and not happy with this governmet. How can 80% of the people agree that the Olympics should be canceled but the Suga government says it will go on. This govt. does not listen to its people. It is like Russia, China, and North Kore.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

If it’s being discussed, it’s already been decided. It’s like dumpling Japan’s nuclear waste into the world’s ocean — was there any doubt at all it would be done? This is the same. They decided it, word got out and there were major objections, so they pretended it was never an option. In a few weeks we’ll start hearing the “Shouganai”s and excuses on why it MUST be done.

a whole lot more people could have been vaccinated if not for government delays.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Why would anyone disagree with me unless they own stock in the Wonderful Chinese and Russian governmets and how they control their people?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

As everyone there knows, Olympic athletes are the cream of Japan society. It is only right that they go to the head of any line to get the jabs before any anyone else (both foreign and domestic).

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I can already see the excuses that are going to be used for this, a slap in the face for the people waiting for months for a vaccine probably even with a smile.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Hope they will lift the two weeks quarantine and non-public transportation rule for those who are been vaccinated arriving into Japan Commonpass?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Paul, I see lots of claims being made, but no references or links to proof for any of your statements. Perhaps you are a leading in immunology and we don't recognize your authority based on a claimed first name only?

Links please? Reputable links.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The Olympic participants MUST BE VACCINATED at least 14 days BEFORE arriving in Japan from their own country with proof. And sign a waiver just like we all do from indemnity- no fault by anyone if they catch COVID attending and participating in the Olympics. It is their willing acceptance of the fact! Just like we all signed a waiver not blaming the vaccine provider.

This is the only fair thing to do.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

In the US the numbers are about one in every 580 people has died from the coronavirus pandemic, so far. The disease should not be taken lightly.

Given the relatively small number of individuals who need to be vaccinated in order to allow the Olympics to go on without in person spectators, what is the government of Japan waiting for?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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