How Ireland became most infectious coronavirus country

Now it's safe to assume that every year this would happen around the world.

WINTER is coming.

COVID is coming.

Prime Minister Micheal Martin... also said it was also "overly simplistic to just focus on one area" to blame for Ireland's vertiginous infection rate.

"I'm accepting socialization, I would add the UK variant and I would add other factors as well," he told Newstalk radio.

The huge difference is that some of the factors you cannot really control (like the appearance of new strains) but others were long predicted to make things worse and can be controlled by the government. There is no excuse when things go worse and worse and the government do the opposite of what the health professionals advice.

Seems that the virulence and adverse effects of the virus are not a function of who is in charge or what their politics are or whatever.

In Japan,I do not know of anyone having died with the virus.

Unless death rates are compared with previous years then the lockdowns and orders make little sense.

My guess, and I have a partner working on a hospital ward, is that fatalities are not all that different from any other year.

Last year, the UK had its highest numbers of deaths since WW2. Open travel from the north to the south of Ireland.

@Zichi

The diet of many in the UK is horrible.

Add to that obesity, drugs, alcohol and underlying conditions; put the virus in the mix and death rates are bound to rise

Amid this global virus warfare no one knows for sure who will be the first to get the way out or become the last winners. Irish should stay cautious with measures, but needn't get so pessimistic.

kurisupisu

@Zichi

The diet of many in the UK is horrible.

How would you know unless you were there? Certainly, not in my own immediate family. So why are you moving back to the UK?

Many younger Japanese also have bad diets and are dying of heart attacks, diabetics and stomach cancers, before their parents.

Add to that obesity, drugs, alcohol and underlying conditions; put the virus in the mix and death rates are bound to rise

Those obesity, drugs and alcohol are lower during 2020 than previous years because of the lockdowns.

But I am surprised these days how many young women are obese in media photos.

We need to see the stats for how many died purely from the Covid-19. But in my opinion even people with underlying conditions have died with Covid-19 they still died from the virus.

Covid-19 news: UK records worst year for excess deaths since 1940

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-uk-records-worst-year-for-excess-deaths-since-1940/#ixzz6jOaVSYvb

Martin aimed to give citizens a "meaningful Christmas."

You did that, Mícheál.

In Japan,I do not know of anyone having died with the virus.

Unless death rates are compared with previous years then the lockdowns and orders make little sense.

My guess, and I have a partner working on a hospital ward, is that fatalities are not all that different from any other year.

Other respiratory diseases have had a huge drop in cases and fatalities thanks to the social distancing measures, if your guess is that fatalities remain the same even when they should have been greatly reduced that would mean that COVID-19 is equivalent by itself to all other infections togheter.

Now, lockdowns and orders are not meant to prevent the current status, we are still in the desired effect, with health services working below full capacity and vulnerable population at least somewhat protected.

It is not that the heavy measures make little sense, but that you are confusing the current situation with the worst that could happen without any measures.

WINTER is coming. COVID is coming.

correction WINTER is coming. COVID is coming. but now we have a vaccine just like the flu

BIG difference

This article summed up in three words: They became complacent.

Fingers cross Japan doesn’t share the same fate.

The diet of many in the UK is horrible..

On this front, the US is way way ahead of the rest..that is one reason for the high death rate.. hope corona leads to worldwide healthy diet and healthy life style.. which in most cases will lead to healthy immune system.

Burning BushToday  02:09 pm JST

So Somalia and about 100 other third world countries that don't even have running water are handling the virus better than Ireland.

If they don't have a government functioning enough to provide running water, how the hell are they gonna realistically have a health service that knows what the virus is doing nationwide??

Japan is holding out the longest on the vaccine to prove a point.

In Japan,I do not know of anyone having died with the virus.

Unless death rates are compared with previous years then the lockdowns and orders make little sense.

My guess, and I have a partner working on a hospital ward, is that fatalities are not all that different from any other year.

You make it sound like just because YOU dont know anyone, it doesnt happen? There is no "previous" year for COVID either, and your assumption about your partner working in a hospital makes no sense either, as not all hospitals have been taking in COVID patients as well.

correction WINTER is coming. COVID is coming. but now we have a vaccine just like the flu

BIG difference

No, we in Japan do not have the vaccine yet, big difference! And it will be more likely than not, a year at least before it gets down to us worker bees!

The diet of many in the UK is horrible.

Add to that obesity, drugs, alcohol and underlying conditions; put the virus in the mix and death rates are bound to rise

The death rate increase is due to Covid.

Burning BushToday  02:09 pm JST

So Somalia and about 100 other third world countries that don't even have running water are handling the virus better than Ireland.

If they don't have a government functioning enough to provide running water, how the hell are they gonna realistically have a health service that knows what the virus is doing nationwide??

According to two friends from Africa who both work at embassies in Tokyo (Tanzania, Libya), African countries have the experience of fighting Ebola, possibly stronger immunity of its people, and favorable climate conditions.

There was a study in the US that found a correlation between temperature, humidity and latitude, and the spread of Covid-19.

Perhaps hard lockdowns don't have the desired/promised effect?

Without all those deadly campaigns of Irish republicans and Ulster loyalists in the past they would have a very rich country full of resources now and had not to cry about this development and being ‘beyond strain’.

quercetumToday  03:31 pm JST

Burning BushToday  02:09 pm JST

So Somalia and about 100 other third world countries that don't even have running water are handling the virus better than Ireland.

If they don't have a government functioning enough to provide running water, how the hell are they gonna realistically have a health service that knows what the virus is doing nationwide??

According to two friends from Africa who both work at embassies in Tokyo (Tanzania, Libya), African countries have the experience of fighting Ebola, possibly stronger immunity of its people, and favorable climate conditions.

Some western African countries had ebola, so yeah those countries have experience and in general Africa has quite a young population which could help. However, many countries are embroiled in conflict making it impossible to get around the country to accurately know what's happening. South Africa gives us a more realistic picture of what is going on.

Sven Asai the previous comflicts have nothing to do with this issue and in fact Irish hospitals ahve been helping their Northern counterparts and I can guarantee no one is asked their religious affiliations before they are treated.

Its a very silly comment. Shame on you.

 There is no excuse when things go worse and worse and the government do the opposite of what the health professionals advice.

As a health professional, what did Ireland do wrong that you would have put a stop to?

The country of five million has suffered only 2,397 virus deaths to date and gained plaudits for the way it handled two previous pandemic waves. In December, it had the lowest incidence rate in the European Union after becoming the first member country to launch a second lockdown.

Guess what. the lockdowns didn't work. Like those with a brain have been saying all year, lockdowns only delay the inevitable.

There was a study in the US that found a correlation between temperature, humidity and latitude, and the spread of Covid-19.

Its one reason why Africa, with their archaic healthcare systems have been doing relatively well. The other is a very young population and low obesity.

The virus is gonna virus. Protect the elderly and let the young live their lives. They can look beyond the 99.9%+ survival rate.

@zichi

I am from the uk and was back there just before corona appeared.

Obesity is at unparalleled levels in the uk. I saw with my own eyes that the level of obesity is appalling. And yes, compared to Japan, many people's diets are full of pre made, frozen ready to eat foods, massive amounts of junk food and confectionary (go to any petrol station and you'll see how much there is ) and I cannot imagine this being any different in Eire. My sister is a midwife but was transferred to a different ward to the huge number of hospitalized patients. The picture in Japan isn't as rosy as suga the steak master wants us to believe, but it isn't as bad as the 'fat' nations of the world.

samuraivunyl

thanks.

America is 12th UK 36th for countries with obese populations.

I don't deny there is an obese problem n the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate

As a health professional, what did Ireland do wrong that you would have put a stop to?

Read the article, it is written there, what do you understood was the recommendations of the professionals.

Guess what. the lockdowns didn't work. Like those with a brain have been saying all year, lockdowns only delay the inevitable.

Strawman, lockdowns are not used to solve the problem but to controls the spread of the disease to maneagable levels, they can be appropiate and useful as proved many times.

The virus is gonna virus. Protect the elderly and let the young live their lives. They can look beyond the 99.9%+ survival rate.

The 99.9% fallacy has been already proven false (no Americans coming back to life yet), and the only realistic way to protect the elderly is not to have free spreading in the general population. You may think you know more than the experts so you want to contradict them, but you have no authority nor data to support your personal opinion.

There was a study in the US that found a correlation between temperature, humidity and latitude, and the spread of Covid-19.

Latin America shares the latitudes and climate of much of Africa yet its SARS-CoV2 infection and death rates are very high. Nations south of the equator have seasons opposite of those to the north so in much of Africa, South America and Australia it is summer now and blazing hot, not a cold damp winter. There is more than just temperature, humidity and the season to the story.

Who says when people are irresponsible that the virus won't keep spreading

Guess what. the lockdowns didn't work. Like those with a brain have been saying all year, lockdowns only delay the inevitable.

Lockdowns flatten the curve - and flatten the curve it did. It delayed hospitalizations to more manageable timeframes; hospitals finally got open space again; military medic ships have returned to port; economies were able to loosen restrictions. For a time.

As experts have predicted like those with a brain have been saying all year, we are now on the 2nd or even 3rd wave. They expected this because previous pandemics experienced multiple waves. So now, "flatten the curve" is needed again

Its one reason why Africa, with their archaic healthcare systems have been doing relatively well. The other is a very young population and low obesity.

The virus is gonna virus. Protect the elderly and let the young live their lives. They can look beyond the 99.9%+ survival rate.

And here are the other reasons:

"Why Africa's COVID-19 Outbreak Hasn't Been as Bad as Everyone Feared"

https://time.com/5919241/africa-covid-19-outbreak/

Preparation is the best preventative - Many African countries have poor medical infrastructure, but they also have longstanding experience with infectious disease... “Ebola knocked us over, but now we know not to underestimate anything; we know how important it is to prepare.”

Masks were not politicized - An August 2020 poll by the Partnership for Evidence-based COVID-19 Response found that among respondents in 18 African countries, more than 85% said they had worn a face mask in the previous week.

Early shutdowns - Businesses were closed, borders shut, gatherings were banned, and in-person schooling stopped. Curfews were enforced. The moves were unpopular, and economically destructive, but they also bought time for medical personnel to prepare hospitals, source supplies and learn from treatment innovations perfected elsewhere, such as using oxygen instead of scarce ventilators, and turning severely ill patients on their stomachs. Preventing that spread of the virus through lockdowns while also preparing to treat the sickest effectively is paying dividends now.

So follow Africa's lead - do not underestimate the virus; wear masks when necessary; early decisive shutdowns

Ya agree then?

The virus is gonna virus. Protect the elderly and let the young live their lives. They can look beyond the 99.9%+ survival rate.

The 99.9% fallacy has been already proven false...

You are mistaken. Any place that does not ignore science and the safe and effective early treatments of infection can achieve survival rate of 99.9-99.95%. But of course, big pharma shills will ignore these facts to push their rushed experimental vaccines, which aren't need by healthy people thanks to the safe and effective (and cheap) treatments.

The 99.9-99.95% is the overall survival rate (all ages), young healthy people can expect much higher survival rates.

The 99.9-99.95% is the overall survival rate (all ages), young healthy people can expect much higher survival rates.

83,200 deaths so far in the UK.

So using your 95.5% survival rate, that would mean there have been 16.6m infections so far, so the UK government is missing 13m cases, because it has only recorded 3m infections.

The only other possibility is that your numbers are utter BS.

But of course, big pharma shills 

Yawn. How many times do we have to hear this?

I once heard conspiracy theorists have fertile imaginations. That is being generous. They actually have no imaginations. Cookie cutter stuff.

So, when is this virus going to burn itself out? Your last prediction was light years off. Can I ask again where you got the idea that this virus burned itself out months ago?

Here are the Covid-19 mortality rates, so people don't make up stats out of their ass:

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

So using your 95.5% survival rate, that would mean there have been 16.6m infections so far, so the UK government is missing 13m cases, because it has only recorded 3m infections.

That is assuming that the UK treats their patients correctly and that the recorded infections represent actual infections; they don't.

The only other possibility is that your numbers are utter BS.

The other possibility is that you have no idea what we are talking about.

the UK government is missing 13m cases, because it has only recorded 3m infections.

Actually, this agrees nicely with what I have often claimed (based on experts' conclusions) that the actual infection number is likely 10-100X the recorded cases. There might be more than 13 million infections so far.

. Actually, this agrees nicely with what I have often claimed (based on experts' conclusions) that the actual infection number is likely 10-100X the recorded cases. There might be more than 13 million infections so far.

I read that study and ‘might’ is the key word. This is not proven. I’m not ruling it out but you immediately run to whatever suits your narrative. This is the kind of mindset which led you to make crackpot predictions about this virus being on its last legs months ago.

I know I’m being harsh here but I find this dangerous. Flat Earth and faked moon landings are good for a bit of knockabout fun, but posting nonsense predictions about a topic as serous as this is very unhelpful

The 99.9-99.95% is the overall survival rate (all ages),

Where does this number come from?

I think one thing we can say for sure about things is that the numbers are hard to interpret. Positive test rates will depend on the testing procedure in any country. Death rates will depend on how deaths are recorded.

Some numbers from Scotland as of today (population about 5.4 million):

Deaths within 28 days of a positive test: 5,102

Deaths with Covid recorded on the death certificate: 7,074

Excess deaths over previous 5-year average: 7,109

Will include even those who died from a traffic accident following a test. But it will exclude those who died from Covid but weren't tested.

This is a doctor's recording, so will include those who had no test but the doctor suspects it was Covid. (Probably at a higher rate in the early stages of the pandemic when tests were fewer, but that's a guess.)

So it's hard to be sure, but it seems reasonable to think the number of deaths is at least 5,000. That's about 0.1% of the population. So if the survival rate is 99.9%, that would mean every person in Scotland has been infected.

Sorry, but that number is hard to believe.

Sorry, JY doesn't like putting numbers before sentences. Will try again with letters.

The 99.9-99.95% is the overall survival rate (all ages),

Where does this number come from?

I think one thing we can say for sure about things is that the numbers are hard to interpret. Positive test rates will depend on the testing procedure in any country. Death rates will depend on how deaths are recorded.

Some numbers from Scotland as of today (population about 5.4 million):

a. Deaths within 28 days of a positive test: 5,102

b. Deaths with Covid recorded on the death certificate: 7,074

c. Excess deaths over previous 5-year average: 7,109

a. Will include even those who died from a traffic accident following a test. But it will exclude those who died from Covid but weren't tested.

b. This is a doctor's recording, so will include those who had no test but the doctor suspects it was Covid. (Probably at a higher rate in the early stages of the pandemic when tests were fewer, but that's a guess.) 

So it's hard to be sure, but it seems reasonable to think the number of deaths is at least 5,000. That's about 0.1% of the population. So if the survival rate is 99.9%, that would mean every person in Scotland has been infected. 

Sorry, but that number is hard to believe.

Seems that the virulence and adverse effects of the virus are not a function of who is in charge or what their politics are or whatever.

Claims of the dangers and responsibility for the virus is directly related to the politics of the leader and those hurling the accusations. That’s how a Democrat Governor of New York who ordered elderly patients into old age care homes known to be hotbeds of covid transmission, can be exonerated for the deaths of tens of thousands of his own citizens.

That’s how a Democrat Governor of New York who ordered elderly patients into old age care homes known to be hotbeds of covid transmission, can be exonerated for the deaths of tens of thousands of his own citizens.

At the time, CDC guidance was for Covid patients to be discharged to long term care while implementing necessary Covid control protocols. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services which regulated nursing homes issued its own guidance two weeks later that said long term care facilities should only accept patients for which they can care and if possible they should create a dedicated facility for recovering Covid patients. The rub is the CMS guidance said nursing homes "must comply with the expedited receipt of residents returning from hospitals to" nursing homes, and that hospitals must declare residents medically stable before they are sent back to the nursing homes " The directive went on to state "No resident shall be denied re-admission or admission to the NH solely based on a confirmed or suspected diagnosis of COVID-19. NHs are prohibited from requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for COVID-19 prior to admission or readmission." As a result nursing homes felt pressured to accept Covid patients discharged by hospitals into their care whether they were ready or not.

ctually, this agrees nicely with what I have often claimed (based on experts' conclusions) that the actual infection number is likely 10-100X the recorded cases.

The problem is that your claim is an irrational and invalid extrapolation on completely different situations and that no expert ever in Japan thinks is real. Is like using the firearm victim numbers from the US to claim Japan has a lot of people that are shot to death without being reported.

Bring properly discussed epidemiological data that supports that claim with weighted variables that apply to Japan, else the opinion of the experts (none of which expects a significant percentage of the population to be infected) is the only one that counts.

Claims of the dangers and responsibility for the virus is directly related to the politics of the leader and those hurling the accusations. 

Irrelevant, if the claims run accordingly to scientific conclusions then politics are irrelevant, and if the claims run contrary to the scientific conclusions again the politics are still irrelevant.

The 99.9-99.95% is the overall survival rate (all ages),

Where does this number come from?

Places that immediately and properly treat anyone who tests positive get very high survival rates. The number above is that provided by Dr Didier Raoult's group, he runs a very large medical facility specializing in infectious diseases.

Unfortunately, in many places doctors are forbidden to or pressured against using certain very effective treatments by officials who are in the pockets of big pharma.

@virusrex

What is your obsession with Japan? The article is about Ireland and I was responding to a comment about the UK.

Places that immediately and properly treat anyone who tests positive get very high survival rates. The number above is that provided by Dr Didier Raoult's group, he runs a very large medical facility specializing in infectious diseases.

Where is that number provided? you keep repeating it as if that were enough to corroborate it. Again, it would be nice to see from where you take it, it may prove that stopping an unethical researcher from using HCQ actually increased his survival rates 10 times, but it could also means he is still "treating" uninfected people to inflate his numbers as he did in his previous reports.

What is your obsession with Japan? The article is about Ireland and I was responding to a comment about the UK.

You may want to see which newspaper site you are writing, this is not the only article where you have repeated your baseless claims not supported by any expert.

Places that immediately and properly treat anyone who tests positive get very high survival rates. The number above is that provided by Dr Didier Raoult's group, he runs a very large medical facility specializing in infectious diseases.

Where is that number provided?

From Dr Didier Raoult himself. You might want to listen to him, you might learn something, instead of limiting yourself to documents provided by Big Pharma. If more people followed the same protocols as Dr Raoult, less people would die. Unfortunately, Big Pharma-connected people try desperately to block and silence him; including death threats from Gilead-funded Francois Raffi.

From Dr Didier Raoult himself. You might want to listen to him, you might learn something, instead of limiting yourself to documents provided by Big Pharma.

So there is absolutely no source for your imaginary numbers? people are suppose to accept those obviously impossible statistics only on your word (not even Didier because there is no source that can corroborate he actually claimed that)? What if someone came here and said that he is actually killing more patients than anybody else in France? would that be enough evidence for your to accept it is true.

If more people followed the same protocols as Dr Raoult, less people would die. Unfortunately, Big Pharma-connected people try desperately to block and silence him; including death threats from Gilead-funded Francois Raffi.

That would be terribly bad, it has already been demonstrated he is terribly sloppy in his protocols (or that he intentionally tried to deceive his patients and other doctors) if other people followed his unethical methods anything would be "proved" to work, putting high risk patients always on the "no treatment" group, putting in the "treatment" group patients that were not even infected (so they would "recover" for sure), playing loose with ethical approval, etc. etc. Vaccines using those methods would have 110% efficacy and not a single side effect ever.

People doing bad, unethical science for personal profit should not be a model to follow. On the opposite they have to be exposed and punished accordingly for risking the lives of patients.

People doing bad, unethical science for personal profit should not be a model to follow.

You keep on saying that, but all you've provided is a magazine article criticizing him for not doing randomized controlled studies.

If you are so concerned about ethics, why are you still pushing vaccines from companies like Pfizer, who have been fined billions over the years for falsifying data and bribing decision makers.

How can you continue to trust their data?

You keep on saying that, but all you've provided is a magazine article criticizing him for not doing randomized controlled studies.

No, you would know if you read the article, he falsified ethical approvals, "treated" patients that were not infected to inflate his numbers, systematically directed the patients more likely to complicate and die to the group he wanted more people to die, used connections to get his manuscript reviewed and accepted improperly on less than 24 hours, etc. etc.

Bring proof that any company made such a mess of their data (that specific data) as Raoult did with his terrible HCQ unethical experiments and it will be justified to discard that data. Until then the huge amount of vigilance provided by professionals on many countries is a much better reassurance than flawed results that not only are not valid, but have been already proved false.

At least now we know that nobody has ever said that Raoult has 99,99% survival rates except you, at least for this mistake the fault is not his.

At least now we know that nobody has ever said that Raoult has 99,99% survival rates except you, at least for this mistake the fault is not his.

Actually, I said 99.9-99.95%, but don't let facts interfere with your narrative.

Actually, I said 99.9-99.95%, but don't let facts interfere with your narrative.

Same difference, nobody but you has said that, and since you have provided no proof of it then it is still perfectly safe to discard that information as imaginary.

Read the article, it is written there, what do you understood was the recommendations of the professionals.

copy that. No answer. God forbid you should have to put your money where your mouth is.

Stolen valor.

copy that. No answer. God forbid you should have to put your money where your mouth is.

Again, if you are going to answer things that anybody can understand simply by reading the article then what is the point of you asking on the first place.

It is clearly written, do you want me to explain it on more simple terms? what is that you could not understand then?

Pubs, restaurants, gyms, hairdressers and non-essential shops were permitted to reopen in December.

The decision reportedly cut against the advice of Ireland's National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET), which recommended more stringent measures remain in place.

Ireland further relaxed restrictions in late December -- allowing up to three households to mingle as Martin aimed to give citizens a "meaningful Christmas".

This is on Martin. Not even the Blueshirt predecessor would have acted like a dope. But that's FF for you.

Without all those deadly campaigns of Irish republicans and Ulster loyalists in the past they would have a very rich country full of resources now and had not to cry about this development and being ‘beyond strain’.

This has nothing to do with the struggle and everything to do with irresponsible behaviour by the coalition government.

I strongly recommend some here to read up some on the history of Ireland, if you're at all going to take cheap shots at it.