world

Scottish nationalists vow independence vote after election win

26 Comments
By Russell Cheyne

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© Thomson Reuters 2021.

©2021 GPlusMedia Inc.

26 Comments
Login to comment

Scotland would be bankrupt but for the subsidy paid by England. The SNP have made as shambles of the economy since they have been in power. They have a “pandemic” of drug related deaths worse comparatively than the USA which has an opioid crisis. They have destroyed the once justifiably highly regarded education system to such an extent they no longer publish data or take part in international comparisons so as to hide the extent of their utter failure. I could go on but what’s the point.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

The 2014 referendum was a vote to stay with the UK and also with the EU. England decided for Scotland and Northern Ireland they were leaving the EU. Each country should now get to decide if they want to leave England for the EU.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

If the independence movement succeeds in Scotland's breaking away to destroy the Union of 1707, it will become the epitaph inscribed on BoJo's Brexit headstone.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Let them go and be free of those deceitful, lying, pompous Tory English

5 ( +9 / -4 )

I'm disappointed that people in my country are thick enough to give a majority to a bunch of odious jumped-up district councillors and think they should have the power to determine the destiny of the whole UK when all they're good for is wracking up debts.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Let them go and be free of those deceitful, lying, pompous Tory English

Cameron’s sales pitch to Scotland before the last referendum was basically reminding them that the Tories won’t always be in power. Given the state of Labour these days, it’s hard to see when the Tories will be out.

I’m not convinced with the SNP, but the idea of being free of the English Tories must be very tempting, particularly after Brexit.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Substitute Scotland and England for the UK and EU and the Scots are only trying to replicate Johnson and 'take back control'. In denying them the opportunity he makes himself even more of a hypocrite.

They should be sure to use exactly the same phrases and arguments as he used.

The legal basis for this also exists in the shift from Empire to Independence of colonial territories, although that didn't always go as well as the PR suggested. Scottish Independence may also replicate the Brexit divisions North of the border. Divisions such as this can be, er, divisive.

Of course England would not be an island, should Scotland become independent. So that would be another border to sort out, initially with Scotland and ultimately with the EU, should Scotland rejoin. Tricky things, borders, as with GB and NI.

One recent putative scheme out of Westminster is a UK spaceport. This is planned to be in Scotland, which would be awkward, post-Independence.

I guess there is some karma in the Little Englanders that drove Brexit ending up with a littler Britain.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"I think a referendum in the current context is irresponsible and reckless," Johnson told the Daily Telegraph newspaper.

Of course he would say that. He knows the writing is on the wall for the UK.

Each country should now get to decide if they want to leave England for the EU.

Slight clarification, NI is an artificial state, created by partition forced on it 100 year ago. But both the 6 counties and Scotland have a right to determine their future and leave the UK, if so. Johnson should not interfere. He got his Brexit.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Lived in Edinburgh for a time, where rich English toffs live. I never met a single Scot who liked the English.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

GoodlucktoyouToday  11:14 am JST

Lived in Edinburgh for a time, where rich English toffs live. I never met a single Scot who liked the English.

There are 5.45 million people living in Scotland. How many Scots did you meet?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I am vehemently opposed to political unions, whether it be the European Union or the United Kingdom. These so-called unions fly in the face of a people’s right to democratic self-determination.

In the SNP case, Nicola Sturgeon wrenched form of separatist nationalism, a cynical methodology dodge at every turn taking responsibility for an appalling failure of leadership in government from health to policing, education to provision of elderly care homes.

Every opportunity to reform government, prompts Sturgeon to blame Westminster.   

This is why Johnson must bite the bullet, call Sturgeon/SNP out, ASAP, move and call a independence referendum to be held within 60 days.

Sturgeon poisonous political posturing must be halted.

The remaining member countries of the UK must be able to move on in the aftermath of a devastating pandemic.

The People of Scotland must be able to hold Sturgeon/SNP directly accountable for there actions.

To achieve this Scotland must be able to cut loose. And accept the consequences.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

My Scottish name is Wallace, a good old fighting name.

Sir William Wallace was a Scottish knight who became one of the main leaders during the First War of Scottish Independence. Along with Andrew Moray, Wallace defeated an English army at the Battle of Stirling Bridge in September 1297. 

London holds a veto over a referendum. Unlikely to be given. What next? Revolution?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Governments my be display upfront and total transparency to the economic costs of independence.

In all cases the political argument was won decades ago.

The fiscal position of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publications/fiscal-position-four-nations

Will the people of Irish Republic be willing to take on the full fiscal/monetary costs at £5,118 per head?

The south would, without doubt, welcome there northern neighbors with open arms, however as long as they don't have to foot the eyewatering bill.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Of course England would not be an island (sic), should Scotland become independent.

Such wilful ignorance gives the Yes team 56% of MSPs and certain victory in IndyRef2.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Lived in Edinburgh for a time, where rich English toffs live. I never met a single Scot who liked the English.

I dated a Glaswegian girl while at University. We liked each other.

She disliked English southerners.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I never met a single Scot who liked the English.

If you said you'd never met a Scot who liked English toffs, I might believe that. Most Scots don't like Scottish toffs either. My parents, both from the north of England, lived in Scotland for about 25 years, and made many lifelong friends.

I am vehemently opposed to political unions

But in this modern world, countries have to work together, and so I think "unions" of some kind are unavoidable. Of course, unions come in various forms. While I don't like all the EU has to offer, I find it far less controlling than the UK.

This is why Johnson must bite the bullet, call Sturgeon/SNP out, ASAP, move and call a independence referendum to be held within 60 days.

Don't you think it should be the Scottish parliament that gets to call when a referendum is held? But if Johnson were to call a referendum for England to leave the UK, that might be more interesting.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Lived in Edinburgh for a time, where rich English toffs live.

A lot of those rich English toffs were probably Scots.

The old castle-owning families speak RP, too.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

albaleo, I agree states, regions countries and governments can work together for common interests. Settlements, arrangement, accords and resolutions.

However politically the buck must stop at Holyrood, with the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon.

zichi, you aren't running round the garden, saltire face paint, wailing "They may take away our lives, but they'll never take our freedom!".

The neighbors wont thank you for it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Of course England would not be an island, 

England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland were never islands. Britain and Great Britain with the countries England, Wales and Scotland, form into the British Isles. Northern Ireland and Ireland would also be an island.

Always confusing even to those born there.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Will the people of Irish Republic be willing to take on the full fiscal/monetary costs at £5,118 per head?"

Further analysis of that £10bn:

The single largest element of the subvention in 2019 was £3.4 billion in pension payments paid by the British state to pensioners in Northern Ireland.

Those are obligations from the UK pension pot for PAYE contributions.

Another sizeable component of the subvention relates to the North’s share of the UK’s national debt and the annual repayments arising from it. This was put at £2.4 billion in 2019.

This accounting exercise isn't actually levied on Ireland's northeastern 6 counties.

Another element of the subvention relates to defence spending, which was £1.1 billion in 2019. Most of this isn’t actual spending on defence in Northern Ireland but the North’s share of UK’s defence budget, much of which relates to its Trident nuclear programme and the cost of the Afghanistan war.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/northern-ireland-s-9-4bn-subvention-and-the-cost-of-irish-unity-1.4553553

(God knows where Faslane is going after IndyRef2. Port Stanley's safe, and the penguins and sheep loyal).

So that leaves, let's see... a theoretical £3bn that will rapidly reduce as productivity rises to Irish standards, employment increases and public sector synergies take effect. Ireland will bring NI's motorways beyond Protestant-dominated areas (yes, seriously). 23 years after the Good Friday Agreement there's still no motorway linking Belfast and Dublin, nor is there one to Catholic majority Derry, and the Belfast - Derry train link is slower than it was 100 years ago.

There are a lot of opportunities to get the North, once the powerhouse of Ireland, firing on all cylinders again after a 100 year sabbatical. Speaking of which, political Unionism has chosen to celebrate the centenary by imploding, like those crappy little indoor fireworks we had to make do with during the Troubles.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

One recent putative scheme out of Westminster is a UK spaceport. This is planned to be in Scotland, which would be awkward, post-Independence.

Is this not planned to be a commercial venture, and so could continue (if viable) under any government?

(But I guess Johnson would miss out on the photo ops.)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Mickelicious, I believe reunification and the costs involved will be the deal breaker both north and south of the boarder.

As much as the costs of Scottish independence, could ultimately become the deciding factor in the outcome of indyref2.   

Poll shows Irish support unification but don’t want to pay for it     

https://www.politico.eu/article/poll-ireland-unification-support-costs-brexit/

Now, an outrageous assumption, had Scotland gained independence in 2014, and subsequently joined the European Union, would the UK current vaccine program be mirrored in an independent Scotland wedded to a EU that is currently unable to coherently roll out any semblance of a clear policy to protect its citizens?

Well, welcome to planet Sturgeon.

I suspect in the quiet confides of a voting booth the people of Scottish will think twice.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Mickelicious, I believe reunification and the costs involved will be the deal breaker both north and south of the boarder.

Does the boarder have any say? Will the rent go up?

Poll shows Irish support unification but don’t want to pay for it 

Clickbait for the partitionist Irish Independent. Next?

I suspect in the quiet confides of a voting booth the people of Scottish will think twice

In the confines of the voting booth yesterday the Scottish people sent Unionists haemwards tae think agen, just like they voted 62% Remain in 2016.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Scottish nationalists vow independence vote after election win

Let them get it, let them join the EU, and let Merkel and Macaron pay for yet another bankrupt litte statelet. Win-Win.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

God knows where Faslane is going after IndyRef2. 

Why should it go anywhere? It's ours, isn't it? :-)

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Why should it go anywhere? It's ours, isn't it? :-)

Except it does not.

The land might belong to Scotland but all the nuke subs, trident missiles etc belong to the British government/people.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites